Yellow Peril by Tze Ming Mok

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Yellow Peril: Are you gonna liberate us girls from male, white, corporate oppression?

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  • Mark Easterbrook,

    Out of all the jokes made on PA, some of them infinitely more cutting, this one gets all the attention?!
    Makes you wonder if there's not some reason for it.

    An alert went out on the secret White Boy Wire (a network of corporate stooges, misogynists, colonisers and private school old boys) telling us to man the barricades and defend our hegemonic superiority. Your secret decoder ring didn't vibrate? </light-hearted sarcasm>

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 244 posts Report Reply

  • nanoplanet,

    Sheeesh, I can't believe how this thread has degenerated.
    Any of the precious and offended notice the title? Yellow Peril. I think that implies that references to ethnicity via colour are meant with just a little bit of mirth and irony.
    Steven if you want to throw yourself in the middle of something to argue your point in an aggressive and direct manner, don’t be surprised if people return the favour, and don’t suddenly get upset if not everyone praises your magnificent contributions.
    Russell I would have thought that if you couldn’t manage loyalty to other contributors you might at least but out. I have a lot of respect for your journalism but your judgement in some your comments on this thread is way off.
    The course of this conversation has really proved Tze's points regarding the disproportionate amount of shit thrown at female commentators, especially if they aren’t also white and dare to challenge white men. I doubt she would feel particularly vindicated or pleased though. I only hope she does continue to make more submissions. I doubt I will.

    Here • Since Apr 2007 • 15 posts Report Reply

  • nanoplanet,

    Sheeesh, I can't believe how this thread has degenerated.
    Any of the precious and offended notice the title? Yellow Peril. I think that implies that references to ethnicity via colour are meant with just a little bit of mirth and irony.
    Steven if you want to throw yourself in the middle of something to argue your point in an aggressive and direct manner, don’t be surprised if people return the favour, and don’t suddenly get upset if not everyone praises your magnificent contributions.
    Russell I would have thought that if you couldn’t manage loyalty to other contributors you might at least but out. I have a lot of respect for your journalism but your judgement in some your comments on this thread is way off.
    The course of this conversation has really proved Tze's points regarding the disproportionate amount of shit thrown at female commentators, especially if they aren’t also white and dare to challenge white men. I doubt she would feel particularly vindicated or pleased though. I only hope she does continue to make more submissions. I doubt I will.

    Here • Since Apr 2007 • 15 posts Report Reply

  • Anorak,

    I too am surprised at the turn this discussion has taken.
    There is certainly a problem with all kinds of online harrassment, but surely a blog for Take Back The Blog, an initiative set up to show support for Kathy Sierra, doesn't need to be full of "what about teh menz!!1!!"
    The thread kinda got hijacked...in response to the hijack I've included a link (i hope) to Chris Clarke of Pandagon's excellent response to the Kathy Sierra/Kos debacle.
    I implore you all to take a gander at it.
    Chris Clarke is a white boy, by the way.

    [I have fixed this link - TMM]

    Auckland • Since Apr 2007 • 61 posts Report Reply

  • Anorak,

    I'll try that link again, otherwise try the ol' cut and paste.

    [ [http://pandagon.net/2007/04/13/how-to-not-be-an-asshole-a-guide-for-men/] ]

    Auckland • Since Apr 2007 • 61 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Easterbrook,

    Any of the precious and offended notice the title? Yellow Peril. I think that implies that references to ethnicity via colour are meant with just a little bit of mirth and irony.

    Yes, but as noted earlier, there is a difference between self-referential humour and comments directed at others. To reference the recent Don Imus furore in the States, a black girl calling herself a "nappy-headed ho" is a whole different situation to a white man using the same term on the radio.

    Yes, this thread has grown into something out of proportion to Tze Ming's throwaway comment. But hey, how often do us white middle-class males get to call for some Political Correctness to demarginalise us? ;)

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 244 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Russell I would have thought that if you couldn’t manage loyalty to other contributors you might at least but out. I have a lot of respect for your journalism but your judgement in some your comments on this thread is way off.

    I'm really sorry you feel that way, but I commented because I thought the discussion was getting a bit untoward - I do that occasionally. Perhaps that was counterproductive in this case, but Tze Ming's my friend, and I thought I could take her up on the tone of her response.

    The course of this conversation has really proved Tze's points regarding the disproportionate amount of shit thrown at female commentators, especially if they aren’t also white and dare to challenge white men. I doubt she would feel particularly vindicated or pleased though. I only hope she does continue to make more submissions. I doubt I will.

    Woah. I think "throwing shit" is taking it a bit far. These are sensitive topics, and people have feelings about them, personal feelings included. I think they've largely been expressed without rancour. I'm happy to "butt out" if that helps, but I don't think the discussion has been entirely unhelpful.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18964 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Yes, this thread has grown into something out of proportion to Tze Ming's throwaway comment. But hey, how often do us white middle-class males get to call for some Political Correctness to demarginalise us? ;)

    Yes, that occurred to me too ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18964 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Out of all the jokes made on PA, some of them infinitely more cutting, this one gets all the attention?!
    Makes you wonder if there's not some reason for it.

    Sheeesh, I can't believe how this thread has degenerated.
    Any of the precious and offended notice the title? Yellow Peril. I think that implies that references to ethnicity via colour are meant with just a little bit of mirth and irony.

    I too am surprised at the turn this discussion has taken.
    There is certainly a problem with all kinds of online harrassment, but surely a blog for Take Back The Blog, an initiative set up to show support for Kathy Sierra, doesn't need to be full of "what about teh menz!!1!!"

    The course of this conversation has really proved Tze's points regarding the disproportionate amount of shit thrown at female commentators, especially if they aren’t also white and dare to challenge white men.

    It's more than disingenuous to dismissively sniff that the Public Address Comments System is 'a white boy's playground', follow this up with the self-righteous speculation that this is because all the women are out 'teaching our children and nursing our sick' and then POST these insights on Public Address and act all indignant and bewildered when people take umbrage.

    The critical response is nothing to do with gender bias - I suggest that if someone were to post an entry on this site pointlessly attacking another Public Address demographic - say, Mac users - for no fathomable reason they'd get an even colder response. The only difference is that the instigator wouldn't be able to resort to special pleading or hiding behind their ethnicity or gender as an excuse for their rudeness.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 902 posts Report Reply

  • Finn Higgins,

    Nanoplanet - I don't think you're really on strong ground telling somebody to butt out on a forum they paid for the development of and who pays for the servers that host it. Tze Ming would be well within her rights to expect discussion of her posts to be polite and considered, but claiming that polite - if notable - disagreement with her views represents "a disproportionate amount of shit" is facile. People aren't disagreeing because she's a girl, it's because they think she's wrong. Or is the fact that she's a girl so overwhelmingly important that we're to ignore the content of her posts or the strength of her arguments? I mean, isn't it cute - a girl! Posting on the internet! Wow. Please note, easily confused, that I'm being sarcastic.

    Anorak - What? How the hell is it hijacking a thread to disagree on an issue? Hijacking would be if the subject had been diverted. At no point has anybody attempt to diminish what happened to Kathy Sierra, or to state that it was acceptable. However, opinions over how to best prevent such problems ocurring in future vary. Reducing what I presume to be my posts to a facile mockery in miXeD CaSe is cheap. If you've got something to say to me then quote me and reply to what I said, please.

    Wellington • Since Apr 2007 • 209 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker,

    But hey, how often do us white middle-class males get to call for some Political Correctness to demarginalise us?

    Yeah. Too right. Let's all pile in and tell this...person, where to get off! How dare she use loaded terms to describe our poor, marginalised selves. I mean...

    white!
    boys!
    playground!

    Jeez, this is pretty close to the bone, I reckon. Calling it offensive is a pretty mild reaction if you ask me...

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 634 posts Report Reply

  • Anorak,

    Finn,
    I'm sorry if you were offended by my use of internet slang.
    My cases, however, are not mixed. I used capitals for proper nouns.
    I think this thread was hijacked when it stopped being about online harrassment which disproportionately targets women, and possible solutions to that harrassment, and became about whether or not "white boys" is an offensive term.
    I urge you to read the blog post I linked to , which is getting more pertinent with every post.

    Auckland • Since Apr 2007 • 61 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    All right.

    Mustering whatever mana I have here, I think it's time to declare this part of the discussion closed, because it only seems likely to repeat itself. Either carry on with the main topic or post in another thread, thanks.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18964 posts Report Reply

  • Anne M,

    OK - well, I don't post on any other blogs or at any other forums beyond my closed group of mothers because on the interwebby, as in real life, I don't like shouting, I don't like ranting and I don't like personal abuse.

    I nearly ran away from here because of d4j's polemics. And I don't much like some of the stuff on this thread, which I'm carefully not reading.

    Yeah, I guess I'm a wimp or a coward or something.

    Since Nov 2006 • 101 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I urge you to read the blog post I linked to , which is getting more pertinent with every post.

    Good post. And jeez, what a mammoth (and occasionally pretty weird) comments thread.

    But unless I've got it wrong and should just STFU (nb: should there be any doubt, this is a flippant aside whose relevance will be evident to anyone who reads that thread), the parts about real-life safety put me in mind of something that happened years ago.

    I was walking down Ponsonby Rd late at night, before it was open late at night, or very well lit, and a woman came out of a side street just behind me. Acting on the not-being-a-potential-threat principle, I picked up my stride to put some distance between us. But I didn't seem to be making any ground on her. Indeed, her footfalls seemed to be quickening.

    I'd just got into a really brisk stride when she called out.

    "Excuse me!" she said. "Could I walk with you? I'd feel safer ..."

    Oh.

    I explained to her what I'd been thinking, we both laughed, and we walked safely up the road to her street and bid each other good evening.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18964 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I nearly ran away from here because of d4j's polemics. And I don't much like some of the stuff on this thread, which I'm carefully not reading.
    Yeah, I guess I'm a wimp or a coward or something.

    If it's the time I'm thinking of, I was watching D4J pretty closely, being aware of his style on less civilised forums, and had a word and suggested he come back when he wasn't so angry (if he'd actually been abusive to another poster I'd probably just have yanked him), as did a couple of other people. It was like talking to the drunk at a party. He grumbled about lack of conflict (a bad thing, apparently) and we haven't seen much of him since.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18964 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Shucks.

    I actually read the original blog, thought it was quite interesting, then saw the bit about white boys and thought that's a bit of a cheap shot but spent 60 seconds to get over it because what was surrounding it was thought provoking enough, and then actually posted (3rd) something that I thought was ON TOPIC! Well at least as good as a white boy could do on the issue.

    I'm off to get a sex change and a new pair of shoes.

    Since Nov 2006 • 876 posts Report Reply

  • Span .,

    I'm a bit sad about where this thread has ended up, but it's not too late to yank it back is it?

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 112 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    I'm a bit sad about where this thread has ended up, but it's not too late to yank it back is it?

    Here's a little light relief

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 902 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    I'm a bit sad about where this thread has ended up, but it's not too late to yank it back is it?

    Here's a little (not unrelated, but deeply funny and bizarre) light relief

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 902 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    __I'm a bit sad about where this thread has ended up, but it's not too late to yank it back is it?__

    Here's a little (not unrelated, but deeply funny and bizarre) light relief

    Heh. And the funny thing is, I was just thinking about Cactus Kate and Lucyna, two local female bloggers who unsurprisingly aren't on Tze Ming's recommended list.

    Any of the women reading here read either of them? Thoughts?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18964 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    No. Can't stand the social and moral conservatism of one, and the sheer viciousness of the other.

    Although <cough>, I have only just started reading Span, which has been my loss.

    I read DPF, but less and less, and I don't comment anymore, not only because of the cesspit in the comments, but also because these days he seems to be a National Party commentator rather than a right wing commentator. I would like to find a good right wing blog, because it's all too easy to read only people you agree with, and never challenge yourself with people whose views are opposed to your own.

    Manawatu City • Since Nov 2006 • 1323 posts Report Reply

  • Linda,

    Re Cactus v Lucyna

    Laughed like a hyena .. does that rhyme with lucyna?
    While contemplating the Jelly wrestling post - I flicked to Wanda Harland where a deeply interesting poll is being conducted.
    Marmite v Vegemite. Nature v nuture.
    Sorry Russell and Tze Ming - maybe some of us girls are shy about posting .. cos.. that's more fun. {gasp -l} we lurk tho.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 14 posts Report Reply

  • nanoplanet,

    Sorry Russell, I felt bad after posting that and I appreciate your comments. I suppose I'd had a stressout day and I was surprised you read your comments because you aren't normally like that from what I've read. But if you meant them as a friend to Tze and by way of moderation then who am I to say. She's a big girl and she probably knows where you were coming from. It's surprising how much more involved with the conversation you get when you comment instead of just observe!
    "Throwing shit" is maybe over-reacting but I am still surprised at the strength of some of the objections. I think they are disproportionate but maybe I'm over sensitive considering the topic.
    So to move on to lighter things "Cactus Kate and Lucyna". Very light, pretty stupid, very unimaginative and dull. I guess that is why I like reading Tze as one of the few women on the scene who call a spade a spade (but not in that way) but who does it with some style and wit.

    Here • Since Apr 2007 • 15 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Sorry Russell, I felt bad after posting that and I appreciate your comments. I suppose I'd had a stressout day and I was surprised you read your comments because you aren't normally like that from what I've read. But if you meant them as a friend to Tze and by way of moderation then who am I to say. She's a big girl and she probably knows where you were coming from. It's surprising how much more involved with the conversation you get when you comment instead of just observe!

    No worries. We talked about it. Funny old day. Glad you came back.

    Anyway, what I popped back in to say is that outiside the political sphere there are quite a few good local girlblogs. I like Hannah at Let's Walk Slowly:

    http://oharg.blogspot.com/

    It's a rock 'n' roll blog, with about a million photos to load on it at the moment. But she's clever, and her review of Peaches at the BDO was awesome.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18964 posts Report Reply

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