Friday after school always turned into a ring-around to find where the parties were. Sometimes the results were concerning?

no Asians, no gangsters

Sounds like a great email signature line for New Zealand First.

They died because a 22 year-old man, in the grip of whatever murderous, callous thing was in his head, revved his car to screaming pitch and drove it into a crowd of people he never knew.

I wonder if drink driving will on his rap sheet.

no Asians, no gangsters

Sounds like a great email signature line for New Zealand First.

Or Tariana Turia, judging by her comments in the Herald.

Quite possibly, but don't you know a driver's licence and owning a car is an inalienable human right? Sorry for getting crankypants so early on another beautiful day, but I wonder what the hell you have to do to lose your licence & get your ride impounded. Apparently, a string?

Word of mouth travelled by phone and by, well, word of mouth in those days

I think in the olden days there was a lot to be said for driving around looking for parties, and of course parking up your car in certain places and discussing what you'd seen or?

So I didn't jinx myself by actually going this time.

No, but if you hadn't of gone you might have still won the award and won Lotto too. But no, you had to go in person to possibly collect an award you may or may not have won. And in?

I remember Metro ran a cover story in the late-80s or early-90s discussing the pros and cons of Auckland seceeding from the rest of NZ. Ever since I have thought the idea never?

Too true – McDonalds car-parks tended to be the 'parking up and chewing the?

Whoops, I almost forgot the telephone.

When I moved here at 18, I found being out at night in Chch a whole lot LESS threatening than being out at night back home.

In the end, two girls didn't die because there was texting or a party, or because of the drinking age.

I do think Parliament missed a great opportunity to reset the drinking age?

a party for which the fateful text-message invitation signed off "no Asians, no gangsters".

Is this just one person texting or widespread? Was it the hosts' invitation? I couldn't find the reference in the links in Russell's post.

Whoever it was, they're pr**ks.

I've heard all the arguments about how 'hard' it would be to have a split drinking age but I really don't see the difficulty.

Me neither. I've heard the arguments to that effect but they've never struck me as very robust.

Of course we all drank stupidly when we were young but that happened in our late teens because alcohol was only available by law to 21 y.o.'s.

I seem to remember some pretty bangin' parties in Hawkes Bay shearing sheds fueled by rather copious amounts of alcohol back when I?

Is this just one person texting or widespread? Was it the hosts' invitation? I couldn't find the reference in the links in Russell's post.

It came out in the Close Up interview with two kids last night. Perhaps it wasn't part of all the text messages, but it was certainly?

As an?

The drinking age is the same accross NZ – however, this sort of idiocy only seems to take place in certain places – rural NZ, including Christchurch.

Oddly enough, we recently did a story on the radio show trying to work out why Christchurch had such an out-of-control culture with?

fact: bought a keg for my 16th birthday.

fact: got obliterated, mate got punched in face by gatecrasher.

fact: no-one is worse for wear (mate was?

I've heard all the arguments about how 'hard' it would be to have a split drinking age but I really don't see the difficulty.

It seems that a split drinking age would be much more straightforward than the old situation. And, apart from the silly "intent to eat" thing, I?

however, this sort of idiocy only seems to take place in certain places – rural NZ, including Christchurch

Yes as Mr Higgins has indicated, rural youth are clearly allowed to run wild?

This is why I always found it galling that the lower-the-drinking age brigade was apparently a bunch of provincial politicians trying to legislate for a problem that wasn't?

And to continue, I also think the booze-violence link is being overstated by some people here. In my experience violence was a key part of a Rural NZ night out, independent from the drinking.

however, this sort of idiocy only seems to take place in certain places – rural NZ, including Christchurch

Ummmm, I know I'm only going my that ever reliable source, the msm, but er, wasn't there a huge flap over the behaviour of teens on the shore a couple of years?

Certain kids whose parents worked for TVNZ/the NZ culture industry also happened to be involved which may have led to it getting more publicity than it might have otherwise.

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/497100/1106383

It is a depressing snapshot of mainstream youth culture – violence, racism and binge drinking all coalescing into one anti-social mess.

Yes as Mr Higgins has indicated, rural youth are clearly allowed to run wild and unsupervised, possibly because their parents wanted time-off for key parties and other tawdry activities they didn't want their kids to see.

I think that's rather a silly angle on it. Rural and small-town kids in?

Consequently it's unsurprising that Christchurch is prone to bigger fights?

Maybe policing strategy also had a part of it. I can also recall now that it was not unusual for a year or two during the late 90s to see convoys of Police vans going up and down the Northern Motorway on a Saturday night?

Of course the two deaths are a vastly bigger story, but to mention the texts and then ignore?

Yes as Mr Higgins has indicated, rural youth are clearly allowed to run wild and unsupervised, possibly because their parents wanted time-off for key parties and other tawdry activities they didn't want their kids to see.

I see what you're saying, but I think that's a different issue.

Herne Bay?

however, this sort of idiocy only seems to take place in certain places – rural NZ, including Christchurch.

I just don't buy into this whole "its a Christchurch thing". I spent my teenage years in Auckland and Uni years in Chch. Both cities I attended parties where there was always?

When things happen in Christchurch they happen in Christchurch but if they happen in Auckland its considered localised. "Oh thats a shore thing" or "yeah that sort of thing happens in South Auckland".

Yes.
Presumably that ancient Metro piece advocating that Auckland secede from the great Southern unwashed (I believe?

Nobody?

As someone who experienced yoof parties in North, Central, and West Auckland, and provinical NZ in the?

Certain kids whose parents worked for TVNZ/the NZ culture industry also happened to be involved which may have led to it getting more publicity than it might have otherwise.

Just as (I believe) the relationship between a TV3 freelancer and 'Mullet' led to lead stories on TV3 about 'innocent' youth?

Based on his anecdotes, there wasn't much teen-on-teen violence; the aggression mostly got directed at the Police. And they couldn't direct much back; they were routinely dealing with well-informed kids with?

True enough (assuming you looked old enough to get served – not so in my case), as far as I can see, the importance of?

Just because someone hasn't been run over at a party in Auckland doesn't mean Auckland parties aren't similarly out of hand. I stand by my comments: I believe a key factor in this problem was the liberalisation of the drinking age.

Didn't the same thing happen at a party in?

The media, for?

Not just in NZ either – its fairly common practice in the suburbs of Sydney or in rural areas for organised teenage house parties to have security at the?

Oh, and of course fighting

Time for some 'make love, not war' education for the youngsters then?

I've been binge drinking for going on 18 years now, and apart from the occasional cringe of embarassment on a Sunday morning, I still haven't found the downside, personally.

I?

What may be happening now is s hoonish version of?

I grew up in Wellington's answer to Chch, Upper Hutt. It's white, violent and scary. At least half of our parties in 6th/7th form would end when the local skinheads got wind of where we were and would turn up to bash everyone they could.

What is it with skinheads?

Yet I still think the city is taking a bit of a bad rap here. The stats don't come through with a portrait of a city in deperate thrall to out-of-control violence- and that's not the experience I get from inhabitants, either.

No, but there is – and there was?

Paul Henry needs to realise that Close Up isn't talkback radio

Funny, that's exactly what i said last night. Talkback hosts annoy the hell out of me.

But reading this thread it is clear that this "Christchurch" is a breeding-ground for degenerate, anti-social behaviour. Nothing?

Christchurch often complains that the inner?

not to belittle what happened here, but aren't we talking about one drunk moron and his car? does it require all these explanations?

But it's not just one incident. It happened a few years back in Whangarei, and someone else here suggested it also happened in Papatoetoe (TBC). I don't?

I don't understand... the attitude to the Police from these young people

In the US there is a problem with a new "No Snitch" rule. For an overview click here

For The Daily Show's take on it click here

ah, the ironies of youth

ah, indeed.

NI – I only partially agree, I think part of the point of the many personal stories given here is not to suggest 'I had some wild times as a kid and I turned out OK' but?

And it appears that the Christchurch incident was preceded by a skirmish with skinheads. Not that that's any excuse for getting in a car and murdering random strangers.

Well I partied up for years in Christchurch and only experienced violence once, and that was with a bunch of rugby bohos.?

But it's not just one incident.

yeah that's kinda my point. to a certain extent, you're always going to get drunk teenagers looking for excitement.

personally, i blame the parents

my parents never smacked me, and look how i turned out

__Wellington, Oct 9 – A man critically injured when a car was driven into a crowd in the Auckland suburb of Pakuranga yesterday morning has died in Middlemore Hospital.

He was Kane Wright, 19.

Melissa Viall, 23, an early childhood teaching student, was killed when?

The New York Times has a somewhat bizarre story about a philosophical split in the conservative movement over evolution,

Conservatives arguing over how Conservative political thought might/should be affected by evolution strikes me as a real recognition that evolution could have consequences outside the lab and classroom.

In some senses?

not to belittle what happened here, but aren't we talking about one drunk moron and his car? does it require all these explanations?

Well actually we are talking about social gatherings that lead to murder.

OK time to hang out my colors on this one: Alcohol is a solvent, it?

With an ageless Michael Laws as Snake Plissken.

Can you imagine a "dry" NZ?

I did spend a few years in Grey Lynn when it was "dry", but I doubt it'd be like that. More like the present gang 'problem', exponentially multiplied.

I buy all my beer at the supermarket, and I'm not sure that's such a good idea either. But the roots of that drink/culture embrace go a lot deeper.

It is a tricky one. I don't think having to get it from the chemist shop would help. And has anyone?

Our daughter decided she didn't want a 15th birthday party 'cos we wouldn't serve alcohol- so none of her friends would really want to come

This issue is just heaving (hoving?) into view for us. Luckily for now, our 14 year old daughter (who is allowed all the freedom she?

When the "No Asians, no gangsters" comment was made, it was interesting to see that he picked up on the obvious meaning of "No Asians", but seemed to think that "no gangsters" meant the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, etc.
I think it?

With an ageless Michael Laws as Snake Plissken

He's more likely to be the comic relief sidekick don't you think?.

True, particularly if the script calls for some dance moves.

With an ageless Michael Laws as Snake Plissken

He's more likely to be the comic relief sidekick don't you think?.

Only if you equate vomiting with laughing. 'Tho his brief appearance on "Dancin mit der Tzars" was amusing, in a train-wreck kind've way.

all the freedom she earns with our trust

The problems arrive as the trust leaves, that's for sure.
But it's not entirely simple then, either. When the kids hit 16 you're conscious there's only a couple of years?

I have never felt in any danger in innercity Christchurch in the wee-small hours, mainly because I take?

Conservatives arguing over how Conservative political thought might/should be affected by evolution strikes me as a real recognition that evolution could have consequences outside the lab and classroom.

Ah Neil, if only you were as generous to the Greens over genetic modification ...

But they're not debating how their philosophy?

With an ageless Michael Laws as Snake Plissken

He's more likely to be the comic relief sidekick don't you think?.

Exclusive plot spoilers

It is 2100. The100 years President (Michael Laws) is shot down in a passenger craft flying over the prison city of Wanganui on his way to broker?

I have never felt in any danger in innercity Christchurch in the wee-small hours, mainly because I take the normal precautions any city-dweller takes

Yeah, me either, though I have to admit that I haven't spent much time there since I sprogged and went all suburban. But as a student?

I propose a television show for publicly shaming the week's most obnoxious teens, in which they will have the piss taken out of them by Oscar Knightly.

Isn't this already being done – Studentville on C4 ?

Where? K-Rd? Fort St? I wouldn't wander through Myers Park alone but that's a park full of glue sniffers, not a street. Even that's fine if there's two of you..

The next arrogant SOB who refers to Christchurch as a hick or rural town is getting a be-atch slap from me.

Say what?

Oh dear... Reminds me of a bizarre conversation (well, it was a monologue while I did my best cornered bunny routine) years back?

a couple of tangential/sideways encounters with the harris gang (who deserve their own wiki entry).

Cue flood of repressed memories, and shuddering.

There's a book to be written on politics as secular religion, and why it's not a very good idea.

With you there. That tends to be my view of the ghastly excesses committed in the names of Marx and Mao.

Right, let's see: Christchurch, NZ's second or third largest city, (depending on how you count the valleys of sub-cities around Wellington) has a lively central city with a boozy populace. But wait... I travel NZ frequently in my work, hang in out cities and towns all over the show...?

Because that, of course, meant they were definitely on drugs.

I think it was DJ Roger Perry who pointed?

Heh – we just had the 'Naenae Boys' which frankly, lacked a bit of imagination, and was all a bit sub-Warriors (movie not footy team). But worthy of neighbourhood?

Heh – we just had the 'Naenae Boys' which frankly, lacked a bit of imagination, and was all a bit sub-Warriors (movie not footy team). But worthy of neighbourhood fear nonetheless, and responsible for more than their fair share of mindless violence.

Ours seems so suburban in retrospect. Stupid, rat-faced?

Sure there were areas where I wouldn't wander alone late at night?

Um yes... and getting my Polyanna mojo on, it's actually encouraging seeing some conservatives out there who aren't willing to totally surrender the field to the theo-cons. (People I?

I was told many times not to walk through Hagley Park at night.

So of course I did it. And the only people I ran into, two large trenchcoated suspicious-looking individuals, turned out to be good friends.

I use to live on Fendalton Rd a couple of years ago and?

Ah Neil, if only you were as generous to the Greens over genetic modification ...

I'm not sure that describing the attitude of conservatives to evolution as "hostile" is all that generous, but I take your point. I have a hostility towards the Greens because I would like to vote?

Good question – put it the other way around, is conservatism or liberalism natural? :)

My wife – who is Dutch – reckons the binge drinking thing is very much an Anglo-Saxon-Celtic thing. This doesn't mean other cultures don't binge drink, but that it is a lot rarer to see in Continental Europe, whereas in the UK and the old 'Dominions' -?

Pissed? Junkie? Gang member? Underage driver?

No, he was an old?

liberals like PZ Myers see it as merely a stick to beat low hanging conservative fruit

That is a nasty accusation to make of PZ. The man is a teaching biology professor who has to deal with the confusion wrought by creationists (whether or not in ID drag) every day?

Sing with me and Gilbert and Sullivan:

"Nature always does contrive / that every boy or girl born alive / is either a little liberal or a little conservative"

Both claims are just a bit of rhetoric, aimed at waverers who don't want to think the issues through. Both should be ignored.

Rob – this comment reminds me very much of a youthful visit to Amsterdam, and going out to drink in the city with some Dutch friends, who very much viewed the Amsterdam?

Sila's brother, Ben, spoke last night of how they were involved in a fight at the party.
Police have confirmed they are investigating allegations of racist activity on the night of the party, while also working with Sila's family amid fears of vigilante reprisals.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4052835a10.html

Police have confirmed they are investigating allegations of racist activity on the night of the party

Not as an extenuating circumstance I hope.

I wonder if the drive-by gangsters in Wanganui had cellphones? The press should get on that – enquiring minds want to know.

And Tariana Turia shoud be?

it's just what you expect from a society founded by sailors, frontiersmen and miners.

not many women around. what the hell else do you do?

but as far as it being a anglo-saxon exclusive thing, two words. "russian" + "vodka".

the maori party would have a lot more credibility if she left the leadership to pita sharples

I have met the ex-leader of the harris gang on numerous occasions, he was married a lady I used to work with, who ironically was maori.
I went to a wedding that he attended that was also, predominately attended by maori, I sat and watched as?

You think? :) Tariana certainly is a bigoted nitwit – but you can't fault the silly bovine for a lack of candor. Having said that, I think the Maori Party has got to?

http://society.guardian.co.uk/drugsandalcohol/story/0,,2077135,00.html

Parents who do not want their children drinking behind their backs should limit their pocket money to less than £10 a week, says the study, carried out by academics and trading standards officers.

Good God! That's $30 a week – as pocket?

Not until you mentioned it -?

Not until you mentioned it – and then perhaps only if someone'd been forced to drink to excess as punishment for beating themselves up.

Strictly speaking you're right but .... most kids who binge drink do so as a result of peer pressure, not out of some well reasoned elective.
Oddly?

Has it struck anyone that many of the "we went to random parties and drank far too much and we're OK" comments are very similar to the "I was whacked with [fill in implement of your choice] as a kid and I'm OK" anecdotes?

Yes it had occurred to me.?

Has it struck anyone that many of the "we went to random parties and drank far too much and we're OK" comments are very similar to the "I was whacked with [fill in implement of your choice] as a kid and I'm OK" anecdotes?

I had thought that the point?

|I had thought that the point of the anecdotes was that
a)binge drinking among teens is not new, and
b)when we were kids the drinking age was twenty, yet I celebrated my 16th birthday in the Old Bank.

Thats true, and the point of the spanking anecdotes is that...

A:smacking?

However I note most teens these days frown on their peers that drink drive. Now if we can have this sort of attitude change in two decades then maybe there is some hope?