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Speaker: Mixing it up, with stats like

195 Responses

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  • Don Christie,

    And it's not just the All Blacks, New Zealand as a whole benefits, to be honest.

    My nomination for quote of the year.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1615 posts Report Reply

  • Bob Munro,

    Lovely. I'd always felt frustrated at the Stephen Jones type jibes, not having any hard data to counter with. And here it all is. Great!

    Christchurch • Since Aug 2007 • 418 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    I don't even like or understand rugby, and yet I enjoyed reading that article. The cultural side of things appeals to me, and I do like a good set of statistics.

    Oh, no. Does this mean I'm going to start being interested in rugby?

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1851 posts Report Reply

  • Bob Munro,

    Robyn, There are British scribes and rugby discussion forums that constantly chide New Zealand for poaching Pacific Island players and therefore 'cheat' to be successful. It's not really about rugby - it's the old colonial concept I think where we are meant to be a white enclave of Englishness plus a few Maori and they aren’t really aware of the changing demographic of the country. If the discussion gets going you might find it interesting, and with a bit of luck there wont be too much talk about the actual game.

    Christchurch • Since Aug 2007 • 418 posts Report Reply

  • Tim Michie,

    Liked the Absolutely Appropriately Labelled Pie Chart on your site Dropkicks.

    Auckward • Since Nov 2006 • 547 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    we of the Dropkicks are there for the people.

    robyn, please lower your shields, and prepare to be assimilated.

    :)

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2024 posts Report Reply

  • Joanna,

    I'm with Robyn on the finding it interesting despite my lack of any interest in sport, especially rugby. But no, this doesn't mean I'm going to start watching it or care if we win or lose, beyond my thoughts on women's refuges...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 726 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover,

    I welcome correction, but I've heard that the big rugby private schools send scouts to the Islands looking for talent. Isn't that what happened with Sivivatu?

    Or do they just scout around the public schools?

    > robyn, please lower your shields, and prepare
    > to be assimilated.

    best. pickup. line. ever ;>

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 306 posts Report Reply

  • InternationalObserver,

    HEY, RB!!
    Any chance you can put some sort of icon on the RWC threads so those of us not interested can save a few finger clicks (thereby delaying RSI another day)??

    Righto, as you were ... blog away you rugby heads! : )

    Since Jun 2007 • 909 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    "robyn, please lower your shields, and prepare to be assimilated."

    Che is the Borg.

    Rugby mimics War in that those who serve "our" interests are "us". WWII the promise of Treaty recognition brought forward many Maori to serve "God, Queen, & Country, Awe! Ake ake ...".
    These promises were given little heed by the settler Govt. on their return.

    So too PIs are recognised (rightly so) as Kiwis in the Black Jersey. Read any News Paper and you'll find the divide is strong and any NZer of PI descent is PI, one of "them". PI Rugby Player like Maori soliders only have an honoury white status in NZ.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    The Burbs are The Borg (we will pave you); Che's kryptonite.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    > robyn, please lower your shields, and prepare
    > to be assimilated.

    best. pickup. line. ever ;>

    Oh no! I feel all funny now!

    Joanna, help me! The boys are seducing me with their rugby talk!

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1851 posts Report Reply

  • Joanna,

    Joanna, help me! The boys are seducing me with their rugby talk!

    It's okay Robyn, head on back to Hubris and I'll talk about boobs some more...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 726 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    and I'll talk about boobs some more...

    Yeah, boys hate that.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4340 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover,

    I was more referring to the tactics, struggle for territory, hand-to-hand combat, artillery bombardments.......

    > Rugby mimics War in that ... PI Rugby Player
    > like Maori soldiers only have an honoury white
    > status in NZ.

    but yeah, that too :((

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 306 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking,

    A fucking great post. Nothing like a few hard facts to deal with grizzlers.

    One other apsect of course is the nubmer of ex All Blacks who are now coaching overseas. There's at least two at this World Cup, quite possibly more, not to mention all those ex ABs coaching non-national teams around the world.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Stephen
    BTW love your Heroic Cock (chk out his site).
    I think there is quite a masculine trad of sculpture in NZ.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Llewellyn,

    One other apsect of course is the nubmer of ex All Blacks who are now coaching overseas

    All good illustrations of market forces in rugby and the fact that NZ does a great line in the global rugby export (and knowledge) economy.

    But does anyone else think its a bit rich of Ted and Co to give McAlister a hard time for going to ply his trade overseas on a bigger wage after their own coaching experiences?

    Mt Albert • Since Nov 2006 • 399 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    I know the R word should be used advisedly, but that's really what we're talking about here. Not deranged, foam-flecked racism (no Godwin, please), but the cheerfully (wilfully?) ignorant knd, that can't conceive of the Other except in the simplest of stereotypes.

    Samoans, Tongans, Fijians etc do not exist in British eyes, except as rugby players. Nothing unusual there. It's not too dissimilar to New Zealanders thinking West Indies = one country = cricket, both false. If an immigrant community is not visible in your own society, you ignore it in other people's. And of course this is reinforced by the marketing/nationalism of sport, especially ye olde conservative rugby, where Scots wear kilts not turbans and the Welsh are only black from being down the mine, look you, and so on.

    But it's important not to get sucked into the "born" argument. That can leave you holding a position somewhere to the right of the BNP or Le Pen. There is a significant difference between:

    1)Monty Panesar - born in England
    2)Nasser Hussein - born overseas, moved to England as a child, with family, for reasons that had nothing to do with cricket
    3) Kevin Pietersen - born overseas but moved to England to play for England

    The nationality (traitor / poaching / bad accent) debate should only ever be about number 3). Anything else is an anti-immigrant platform, way beyond sport. As pointed out in the original post, the overseas-born ABs are overwhelmingly in category 2). And as much as anything, it's abhorrent to equate nationality only with where you pop out, something that can be the result of your parents being in the armed forces or global business or hippie travellers or even (shock) an international liaison before Mum brought the toddler home ... really, it's all so bloody reactionary.

    It's desperately sad that a huge NH media pack can follow the Lions here for many weeks in 2005, and yet apparently not once take the trouble to wander over to a school playing field in Auckland or other centres, and see what New Zealanders look like - and then report this to the folks back home. The public are ignorant, but only because the media (choose to?) perpetuate the "Polynesian poaching" myth.

    PS It looks like we need a new lock over in France. I reckon we should send Flavell, Filipo and Rawlinson, and ask the NH rugby folk to choose the proper Kiwi for us. What's the betting they pick the import?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 718 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    It looks like we need a new lock over in France. I reckon we should send Flavell, Filipo and Rawlinson, and ask the NH rugby folk to choose the proper Kiwi for us. What's the betting they pick the import?

    If I was a NH rugby person, that's exactly what I would do because the other two are better rugby players and I wouldn't want the All Blacks to do well.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Irvine,

    Simon G, that's a great post, I liked your point about the Lions' media pack - they wouldn't even have to have gone to a school to see what NZ's ethnic mix is like these days, just getting out of the Hilton hotel for a while would have done the trick.

    Actually, I think they'd rather just have the ready-made, go-to excuse for when they get their arse kicked.

    Oh, and there's no locking crisis. But Flavell would be my back up choice.

    Auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 241 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover,

    > Oh, and there's no locking crisis.

    Hee hee that rules. Well done.

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 306 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    PLUG
    By the way the new Dropkicks podcast is up. And in record time, less than 48hours since we actually recorded it. Hooray Noizy!
    ENDPLUG

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • Jim Welch,

    Yes, very interesting post. I've always thought that the claims by British sportswriters that NZ "poached" pacific islanders was not only ignorant, but, at base, somehow a bit racist....

    Just one nit-picking quibble--I don't think you really mean "homogeneous." That means "made up of identical components." I think maybe you mean "indigenous"?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Jim now you're talking.
    "Just one nit-picking quibble--I don't think you really mean "homogeneous." That means "made up of identical components." I think maybe you mean "indigenous"?"

    That make 3 for the All Blacks, 2 for Sth Africa, & nil for Australia.

    Please correct my numbers I plucked them from god knows where.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

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