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Speaker: Mixing it up, with stats like

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  • Jim Welch,

    Well, i hate to harp, but i don't think "native-born" has a pejorative meaning in NZ. (if it does, it shouldn't--just like using the word "niggardly" shouldn't spark calls for your resignation.) calling someone (Maori) a "native" (in the sense of a "primitive") is probably offensive, but that is a different use of the word. saying someone is NZ "native-born" simply means they were born in NZ. only an Australian would find that offensive....

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • kowhai montgomery,

    Hi Jim, I don't think you are harping and it is true that words have meanings. I think there are plenty of self-styled pedant/pendants around here, I suspect we enjoy that kind of thing. I kind of am a word freak but my spelling is shocking......what can you do eh.

    I think that "native-born" might well be the most accurate term. However I agree with others on this thread that it is good not to get sucked into the "born" argument. Using a term like homogenous is a bit wack for the reasons you stated but I can see why they chose it. My money would be on "home-grown" but that could have a whole different bunch of connotations ; )

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Jim, niggardly should get you fired. I like your search for identity but it requires a wider acknowledgement than you're giving it.
    Cheers

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Apparently the Celts determined you by where the womb of your womb is buried...

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • kowhai montgomery,

    Apparently the Celts determined you by where the womb of your womb is buried...

    sweet that would have me at ‘Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipuka-kapimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuaakitanarahu’ then.

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Jim, "niggardly" should get you fired.

    Michael, you're not serious, I hope.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Jim Welch,

    Jim, niggardly should get you fired. I like your search for identity but it requires a wider acknowledgement than you're giving it.

    michael--ok, i give up. i have no idea what you're talking about....

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking,

    Would that be the celts or the cults?

    The most important thing...well, one of hte most imporant things...look, a kind of significant thing... to remember about the game of rugby is this: it's all about cheating and - this is the important bit - getting away with it.

    The founding myth of rugby is about a bloke breaking the rules - he picked up the ball and ran with it when he was supposed to kick it.

    There are all these incredibly complicated rules - see the examples cited above - which have only one aim, which is to find a way to cheat the rules the ref won't see.

    This is why it flourished in English posh schools. They are full of arcane rules, both official and unofficial. Mostly they are nonsensical - things like how many buttons you can have done up on your jacket and that sort of thing.

    The point is to prepare people for life by putting a whole lot of silly rules in front of them that they have to break if they are going to live. It teaches them how to break the rules and not get caught. A lot of our own posh schools have a similar ethos.

    This is one of the reasons - though not the only one - why rugby union boards are full of lawyers.

    I thought it was a shame they legitimised lifting in the lineout. The whole point of lineouts was their sheer dodginess.

    Re; The alt broadcasts: I think I heard a bit of the 'Dad' one in 1991. It's all a bit fuzzy now. Was always a great 'Dad's Tips' fan - still got a couple of tapes which were merchandised at the time. I regard them as sublime, unacknowledged Kiwi comedy classics.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 805 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Dad would know what to do.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Irvine,

    What would the chances be of 'Dad's Tips' being released in one of those new fangled digital formats, do you reckon?

    Auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 241 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking,

    Dad would know what to do.

    Too right. Damn good clip 'round the ear. Tolja once, tolja a hundred times!

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 805 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    If you're in Washington D.C. & throwing around a word like "niggardly" you are out of touch and have no place in power, irrespective of your intended use of the word.

    Jim I enjoyed your exploration of identity through language.
    I think there is more to it as well.
    I take it you identiufy as a native-born NZer?

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    If you're in Washington D.C. & throwing around a word like "niggardly" you are out of touch and have no place in power, irrespective of your intended use of the word.

    You should also be fired for using words like country, Whakatane, whopper, pollywog, and any other words that have a bit in them that sounds vaguely like a completely different word that might be offensive to someone.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 841 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    niggardly

    Word meaning cheap used by smart ass racists.
    (You can't think of any other word to use? Why not?)
    Richard Roper wrote a column in defense of it's use.




    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=niggardly

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • The Dropkicks,

    Jim, ignore Michael. He hasn't been initiated into the cult yet.

    Robyn, thx for listening. It should take at least three casts before the programming really kicks in. You'll be quoting the offside rule to beer-gutted blokes at pub in no time.

    The rest of you. Carry on.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2007 • 20 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    I take it Whisky Galore are proud to support smart ass racists?

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    What would the chances be of 'Dad's Tips' being released in one of those new fangled digital formats, do you reckon?

    I would buy that in a heartbeat.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3661 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    When I became a Dad, I became Dad. I imagine Dad has grown older these last few years, so is probably a Grandad...blog commenting by now maybe.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I take it Whisky Galore are proud to support smart ass racists?

    Michael: not for the first time, I'm asking you to pull your damn head in. Your comment is completely unwarranted and based on a faulty understanding of the meaning of the word and its derivation:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly

    Perhaps you could clear the air and apologise for baselessly accusing people of being racist.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18991 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    throwing around a word like "niggardly" you are out of touch and have no place in power

    That's exactly what I think about the people who complain it is a racist term. That, and pig ignorant. Apologies to the pigs.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2074 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover,

    > You should also be fired for using words like country,
    > Whakatane, whopper, pollywog, and any other words
    > that have a bit in them that sounds vaguely like a
    > completely different word that might be offensive to
    > someone.

    LOL yes. exactly.

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 354 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Whopper?

    What about afghan Hounds then? Brazil nuts?!! Guinea Pigs!?

    Or am I on the wrong track?

    Since Nov 2006 • 2074 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Russell et al

    I enjoy PA & it is you sand pit but I'm right on this one. Niggardly is used by smart ass racists ( so says the Urban dictionary) and I can't compromise on this position.

    What might be called common sense, or an understanding of socio-political reality of our world would surely have people realise this word is offensive, even when it is used as intended and without malice.

    I really though there could have been some interesting insight towards Kiwi identity here, oh well.

    Offence was not intended, testing ideas of identity was.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    or an understanding of socio-political reality of our world would surely have people realise this word is offensive,

    I have little truck with people who would employ falsehood to accuse others of racism.

    The word is not offensive, the assertion that it is is just wrong. Maybe in between getting an understanding of socio-political reality, they could get an education.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2074 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Niggardly is used by smart ass racists ( so says the Urban dictionary) and I can't compromise on this position.

    It's also used by people who would be gobsmacked to be told it has racist connotations, and are using it for its actual meaning. To call them racist is offensive.

    What might be called common sense, or an understanding of socio-political reality of our world would surely have people realise this word is offensive, even when it is used as intended and without malice.

    So, intent is irrelevant and all that matters is the impact on the hearer? In which case, surely you need to apologise to the people you offended by calling them racist, because your intent is irrelevant, and all that matters is that you offended them.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4369 posts Report Reply

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