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Speaker: It's the recrimination I don't need …

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  • Russell Brown,

    Wow. Another thriller. Wouldn't a France-Argentina rematch in the final be great?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17967 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Wouldn't a France-Argentina rematch in the final be great?

    Yes, it would be tremendous. I'm almost glad we lost.

    (Seriously, there is such a thing as taking it too maturely, Russell.)

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7315 posts Report Reply

  • JP Hansen,

    Considering a lot of the comments in the "your views" sections of the NZ Herald website, I'm pleasantly surprised with the results so far on today's reader's poll regarding the next coach.

    Waitakere • Since Nov 2006 • 199 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Irvine,

    Hey I went for a bike ride after the match too - that helped a lot :)

    Auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 241 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    yeah, but Los Pumas need to deal to SA first.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 825 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    And now the Scots are out...

    No bile from me as I remember the glorious unpicking of the Woodward Lions not so long ago.

    Some points. Tana Umaga never captained a World Cup team. That is a shame and it is a crying shame he did not stick around for this one.

    Can someone please give the AB forwards a quicker pick and go game? As a non-rugby viewer sitting next to me said "how can they get points if they just leave the ball lying there?". I do feel that this aspect of the game showed a lack of nerve.

    Jim Keyes, rugby writer for the DomPost is an idiot. He seems to think Grog should go. But Henry is the best coach we have and I would dearly like to see him have a role in four years time. Getting shot of him now would be like losing Tana too early. His plans have been working well and will pay dividends going into the future.

    I will judge him, He's been brilliant.

    Is it too late to say, "God, I need a dram".

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1612 posts Report Reply

  • Tim Michie,

    I'm with JP,

    I'm not going to disown a team (and coach) over this.

    Auckward • Since Nov 2006 • 522 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    Is it too late to say, "God, I need a dram".

    No, not too late. Maybe a bit early though - the sun isn't over the yard-arm yet...

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 825 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    By the way, Robbie Deans was part of the Mitchel set up which was a pretty disastrous and fractious time for the ABs. Not least of the problems was having Rueben Thorne as captain (and in the team in the first place). I would be interested to hear if he learned any lessons from that time.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1612 posts Report Reply

  • Charles Mabbett,

    Ha! Bring back John Mitchell AKA The Communicator!

    Go the Boks! You know if Rokocoko and Sivivatu had played for Fiji instead of NZ, they might have beaten South Africa. And who knows, the All Blacks might have beaten France with a couple of other wings. Both were extremely disappointing in yesterday's test.

    Since Nov 2006 • 236 posts Report Reply

  • The Dropkicks,

    There is only one person to blame for the loss.

    Carl Hayman, or, whomever made him shave his beard.

    "Divine retribution" people... "Divine retribution".

    Wellington • Since Sep 2007 • 20 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    Don I completely agree.
    Jim Keyes is an idiot. I am very happy to see Graham Henry for the next few years and even if doesn't stick around for the next cup perhaps he can groom a successor. It's easier for teams to continue if they are used to the coaching style.

    I'm picking an Argentina-England final, with Argentina winning 32-12.
    I'm just going to pop down the TAB and put $5M on that.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2079 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    Maybe a bit early though - the sun isn't over the yard-arm yet...

    Ah weel, mak it a nip, jist ta bide awa the times, whateffer.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1612 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    OK I'm not a rugby fan - am I wrong in my reaction to this morning's paper "great! now all the hype can stop"?

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 1958 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    There is only one person to blame for the loss.

    Hmm, I did think of TV3 for their ungodly decision to run ads on a Sunday.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1612 posts Report Reply

  • Nat Torkington,

    The thirty minutes of handwringing rugby wank on Morning Report was ridiculous. It is literally yesterday's news at this point. What's served by encouraging the lineup of finger-pointing has-beens to second-guess and grizzle? (Highlight: the poor word choice of describing the players becoming emotional in the locker-room afterwards as 'choking up')

    "Moneyball" is a really interesting book about how statisticians turned around a baseball team. One of the things I took away from this book is that season games are about skill and execution, while postseason are all about luck and injuries. In general, baseball and football teams won't make it through to the World Series or Superbowl if they lose players to injuries. And while you can condition, recondition, play or protect as you fancy, ultimately injuries are in the hands of the gods. The World Cup is a sign of upon whom the Gods are smiling, not a sign of the consistently best team.

    Anyone who pokes shit at the ABs for the loss deserves all the emotional wounds the loss can bring. The team was in great physical shape but they weren't able to play sufficiently better than a gritty French team to overcome the few inevitable bad calls. C'est la vie.

    The national rugby conversation I'm dreading is the one about rebuilding the ABs after the majority of the team leave for Europe's rich clubs. There'll be a flood of new caps and whoever gets the coaching position is going to have a hell of a job turning what were (this year) non AB material into ABs.

    Ti Point • Since Nov 2006 • 100 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    And now I disagree Don.

    After talking stats with Tracey Nelson, she completely dispelled the myth of Reuben "Mr Invisible" Thorne and had plenty of stats to say that he was a very productive player.

    though I will say I wouldn't want Robbie Deans as coach (though I don't want him coaching Aussie either)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2079 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    There is only one person to blame for the loss.
    Carl Hayman, or, whomever made him shave his beard.

    "Divine retribution" people... "Divine retribution".

    You know, that did occur to me quite early in the match...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17967 posts Report Reply

  • The Dropkicks,

    Oh, and England has fought a war with every team in the Semis.

    There's a fact you never thought would have relevance!

    Wellington • Since Sep 2007 • 20 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    Carl Hayman, or, whomever made him shave his beard.

    You know, that did occur to me quite early in the match...

    Che can back me up on this, I yelled out during the anthems "OMG! He's shaved his beard!"

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2079 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    Oh, and England has fought a war with every team in the Semis.

    Ha! Brilliant!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2079 posts Report Reply

  • Gabor Toth,

    ...while I listened to Finlay Macdonald and Bill Ralston (who make a great team, by the way) insist they wouldn't mention the rugby on Radio Live, then raise it with every guest

    One of the most amusing things I heard yesterday was Radio Live's regular sting proudly stating how they were the "official radio broadcaster of the Rugby World Cup" and how (presumptuously), we could "tune in next weekend to hear the All Blacks take on Australia in the semi-final". It appears none of the weekend staff knew how to re-program the computer playing the advertisements as the sting was still playing at 10pm on Sunday night.

    Wellington • Since Dec 2006 • 112 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    Che can back me up on this, I yelled out during the anthems "OMG! He's shaved his beard!"

    i was dumbstruck with fear, and unable to reply.

    my concern was illustrated later in the game, when hayman had a tiny trickle of claret from just above one eyebrow.

    this proved he was no longer made of stone.

    assuming the blood was his, of course.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2018 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    Oh, and England has fought a war with every team in the Semis.

    There's probably more teams in the show they've warred with than not...

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 825 posts Report Reply

  • Francis Wevers,

    I too had to get out of the house after. Took my two dogs and the middle son for a stride out over the top of Tinakori Hill in a driving gale and flatline rain. Still struggling to come to terms with it today.

    But, it was a great game and it showed us in its rawest form the reason why sport, any sport, grips us all - it's very unpredictability.

    TYhere's no such thing as a dead cert or a sure bet and the guy who dropped $5mill must be the only one who's feeling nearly as bad as the ABs themselves and the RU who spent so much on the campaign.

    The rugby ball is ovoid to increase the unpredictaibility of the core of the game.

    Unpredictable things happen and - we lose - bugger.

    But life goes on, and so do we.

    It was a great game of rugby and we were priviledged to be part of it. The French were awesome in their passion and their heart.

    Like you I don't want to get into recriminations. The best AB team was chosen. The best AB team played with great courage and heart - and were beaten.

    That's not down to players or coaches or anyone else - that's down to the unpredictability of sport and an ovoid ball. That's what makes it wonderful.

    Henry and his team did the right thing. His rotation policy and large squad makes sense if seen from the perspective of his (and our) desire to eliminate the predictable consequences of risk of injury in a contact sport. But there's a limit to the cover you can give yourself to manage risk.

    What you can't eliminate is the consequences arising from the risk of the unpredictable; with both the first choice and the second choice first fives being injured, the bad refereeing and the enormous passion the French team and the forwards in particular brought to their defence.

    Sport is wonderful because the underdog always has a show - Georgia, Argentina, Tonga, Fiji - and now France!

    Allez les bleus!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5 posts Report Reply

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