Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Te Qaeda and the God Squad

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  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Rogerd you are so right.

    "Not unless you want politicians overriding the judicial process arbitarily. In which case, frankly, it is you who is leading New Zealand down the path to facism, not the cops."

    Foreshore & Seabed Act anyone?

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Sonic,

    "it is you who is leading New Zealand down the path to facism, not the cops."

    Yes, quite.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    It's alright. They've shaken hands and made up now. Because it's not okay ...

    Heh... unfortunately, I don't think these folks have their snark on.

    My personal favourite:

    Boys will be boys. Come on NZ, one guy is winding up another guy who is has just split from wife and dealing with daddy's death, Then he gets socked in the mouth, sounds like that is straight out of my 9-year-olds playground at school. However I too have been in that position at 27! It's just boys been boys. Leave them alone, he apologised, the apology was accepted. End of story as mum would say. So what is the NZ Herald worried about. Not everything should be news.

    Oy... back in the real world, grown-ups with grown up jobs are expected to deal with their personal shit on their own time, and keep their hands to themselves.

    And to be quite blunt, no matter how big a prickish thug Mallard is - IMO, p0rn star huge - Henare hasn't done himself any favours either. He's widely tipped to be the next Maori Affairs Minister, and he's really got to prove he's got his head around the culture difference between National and Winston First. And my understanding is that he's done a lot to turn around the opinion of, shall we say, sceptics when he joined up.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11783 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    It's alright. They've shaken hands and made up now. Because it's not okay ...

    Classic domestic violence mistake Russell! "I'm sorry Tau, I shouldn't have hit you. But you know how angry it makes me when you talk about my ex-wife in the house..." It's the first blow that's the problem, not what he says afterwards. A TV public figure such as you...

    Tau shouldn't take him back. Get that National MP to a women's refuge quick!

    Since Nov 2006 • 6147 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    I imagine New Zealand's 'anti-terror' activities have a way to go before they come close to parity with the likes of the U.S., Britain or Australia..., if you want to be in the gang you need to learn to behave like the other gang members.

    Which is why the TSA amendment bill passed yesterday, 108 for 12 against. Russ had the numbers about right. I, for one, was not happy about this and for once agreed totally with Rodney hide. This IS the "thin end of the wedge" we already have laws that covered all this, if someone is suspected of belonging to a "terrorist organisation" just issue a risk certificate. We now have a law that can freeze the assets of any person or organisation and lock them away without explanation that is deemed by the Prime Minister (of the time) or, for that matter any group designated by the international powers that be, to be a member of the, what shall we call it? "The Axis of Evil" "The Evil Doers" "The Bad Guys" "People that are doing things not regarded as illegal but we don't like it"
    But don't worry, you haven't done anything wrong, have you?

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4613 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd,

    Oy... back in the real world, grown-ups with grown up jobs are expected to deal with their personal shit on their own time, and keep their hands to themselves.

    Well, sure. In most jobs, you'd get sacked for belting a workmate. On the other hand, you'd also be on the path to dismissal if you kept giving people shit about their marriage in the workplace, too.

    Which is why the TSA amendment bill passed yesterday, 108 for 12 against. Russ had the numbers about right. I, for one, was not happy about this and for once agreed totally with Rodney hide. This IS the "thin end of the wedge" we already have laws that covered all this, if someone is suspected of belonging to a "terrorist organisation" just issue a risk certificate.

    I/S had it right: is this a law you'd want Muldoon having? (If you're more right leaning, pick some random left-wing bogeyman figure.) The idea that the PM can now simply declare anyone a terrorist with no judicial review is more at home in Zimbabwe or East Germany than anything resembling a functioning democracy.

    When ACT and the Greens agree that something is a terrible inrfingement of civil liberties, they're almost always right.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • vangam,

    James George:

    "However not everyone who cares about this planet believes a system of papal indulgences where polluters can pollute as long as they spend money on planting trees and the like makes much sense."

    I love that: 'papal indulgences', but the links not working - wouldnt mind seeing it.

    That was a most enjoyable read James - I may not agree with everything u said, but I do with the general direction of it.One of the best I've read in 3 or 4 yrs I been reading PA.

    And RB, you da bomb! :)

    Rangiora • Since Jun 2007 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    Shhh, don't mention the 'b' word!

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 832 posts Report Reply

  • Yoza,

    Which is why the TSA amendment bill passed yesterday, 108 for 12 against.

    The Labour/National coalition strikes again.

    (also checking to see if my gravatar is working)

    Wellington • Since Oct 2007 • 11 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Omar Hamed, is being held in custody charged with having had firearms in his possession prior to being arrested.

    He has not been charged with terrorism. I'd say there could be a bit of inappropriate use of the remand in custody option going on here. From what I understand he's not a recidivist criminal. However he has apparently made threatening statements in the past. For example

    Omar says he is passionate about writing and a regular correspondent to the media "whenever something really ticks me off". He might be feeling a bit ticked of about being banged up in jail because the police are trying to figure out what they are doing in regards there the rather news worthy, new ream of law.

    Will Garth Mcvicar of the Sensible Sentencing Trust argue that that he's taking up valuable cell space? Bearing in mind Omar has not actually been charged with conspiracy to actually harm person or property.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Rodgerd wrote:

    On the other hand, you'd also be on the path to dismissal if you kept giving people shit about their marriage in the workplace, too.

    Quite possibly, but smacking the crap out of someone isn't really an appropriate methodology for workplace dispute resolution or stress minimisation. (OMG, did I just lapse into Management Gibber-lish?)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11783 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    However he has apparently made threatening statements in the past. For example

    Omar says he is passionate about writing and a regular correspondent to the media "whenever something really ticks me off".

    Steven, there is absolutely nothing in either that quote or the linked page that could be considered threatening.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Matt Jeffs,

    From what I can see, from reading the NZ Herald online and Stuff NZ, Omar seems to have been arrested just on the basis of being politcally active, having allegedally held a firearm at some stage and being of middle eastern descent while living in New Zealand. I'm no expert on New Zealand law but since when did any of these things become illegall? Being politically active ... well should anyone who ever belonged to a politcal party, trade union or written an 'incandescant' Letter to The Editor be worried?
    As for handling a firearm. Should we then start banging up farmers. I'm sure a few of the country's cow cocky's get a bit 'ticked off' now and then. If anyone has read anything reliable that would highlight this individual as being of 'serious national threat to public safety' please inform me. At the moment I can't quite see how anyone actually has the brass to detain him.

    UK - ex Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 36 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    "Omar Hamed"

    best. dogwhistle. ever.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2024 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Sorry - Omar Hamed is being charged with having at some stage in the past held a firearm?
    Sure he's not being done for having one now?
    Just I've instructed in firearms & even had an 8 yr old shoot a 9mm pistol - all on the Queens shilling.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Just listened to Radio Live Lush & Tame Iti.
    He knows the SIS are watching him & he states he went to Fiji to talk.
    It seems quite a leap to go from self appointed ambasador of Tuhoe to Fiji to then become an armed revolutionary.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Paul Wood,

    Now Michael - that would be "self appointed ambassador of a nation not recognised by any government or the UN, to the leader of an undemocratic military junta." That's pretty queer in itself.

    And it really doesn't take much - speaking as someone who knew someone killed in the Bali bombing, you don't have to be Che Guevara to cause carnage, just the will.

    Christchurch • Since Jan 2007 • 175 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Now Michael - that would be "self appointed ambassador of a nation not recognised by any government or the UN, to the leader of an undemocratic military junta." That's pretty queer in itself.

    That's a tactic that has been used with some success by indigenous people's around the world. Not self-appointed ambassadors that I know of, but Aborigines have set up a protest embassy in Canberra for ages.

    And given that Tuhoe as I understand it, didn't sign the Treaty, but were included into the British Empire by act of NZ Parliament, without their consent, declaring themselves a sovereign nation and putting into place some public structures of that nation is an entirely sensible protest tactic.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6147 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Andrew - Indonesia is a mess. There is always a playing off of the various people and often with bloody results.

    I wrote earlier of an Indonesian whos father & uncles were killed by paramilitaries while he was at Uni here & stayed with my family while Muldoon stort to forcibly remove him to back there to a certain death. He's now in Canada as far as I know.

    I truely don't see Tame Iti or anyone in NZ having the will for armed revolt.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Paul Wood,

    Neither Tame Iti (for Tuhoe or otherwise) nor the Fiji junta enjoy any sort of official international recognition, so it's a rather pointless gesture. And entirely disingenious of Iti's part:

    'Twas an evening in October, I'll confess I wasn't sober,
    I was carting home a load with manly pride,
    When my feet began to stutter and I fell into the gutter,
    And a pig came up and lay down by my side.
    Then I lay there in the gutter and my heart was all a-flutter,
    Till a lady, passing by, did chance to say:
    "You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses,"
    Then the pig got up and slowly walked away.

    And as Tuhoe can hardly exist outside the context of the modern New Zealand state, I regard protest to that end as something of a moot point and probably not a position as widely held amond Tuhoe as you might think.

    Christchurch • Since Jan 2007 • 175 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    I'ld argue how modern our state is when we have no constitutional ties to stop Parliment from overruling the judiciary.

    The ditty is a little distasteful, while reading it I thought of "The Settlers Lament" Taranaki Punch 1860.

    Tuhoe Nation & New Zealand State are interesting, as we are both in the Republic of Christchurch. We have many ethnic teams who play sport or other cultural groups that go overseas, some funded by the state. Why would heart felt communications be any different.

    And lets not default to the UN as our moral/legal barometer. They're not democratic to say the least and set up to maintain US/European power after WWII.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Neither Tame Iti (for Tuhoe or otherwise) nor the Fiji junta enjoy any sort of official international recognition, so it's a rather pointless gesture.

    Well, the Fiji junta seemed to get a lot of recognition last week at the Pacific Island leaders forum.

    And as Tuhoe can hardly exist outside the context of the modern New Zealand state, I regard protest to that end as something of a moot point

    Protest activities are full of gestures, and some of them are indeed pointless.

    The point of declaring a sovereign nation would not be to become one. That would confuse tactics (declaring yourself a sovereign nation) with strategy (getting a message about your history to the general public). Every time Tame Iti or someone else does something 'sovereign nation-like' that message comes back out in the media and we all get reminded of something that the activist wants us to think about.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6147 posts Report Reply

  • David Cauchi,

    I'm all for an autonomous Tuhoe nation, but even someone of the meanest intelligence should realise that blowing people up is not the way to go about getting one.

    <a href="http://www.nskstate.com/state/index.php">Embassies for nations that don't actually exist</a>, on the other hand, are a different story.

    Only avant-garde art can save us!

    Wellington • Since Jul 2007 • 121 posts Report Reply

  • David Cauchi,

    Stink. Stuffed that one up right and proper. Here's the link:

    http://www.nskstate.com/state/index.php

    Wellington • Since Jul 2007 • 121 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Paul Wood,

    Rather my point is, wasn't Iti doing more damage to his cause by cosying up to an unelected dictator who has comitted some terrible acts on his own people - what does that say about his values. And while, yes Mr Bananarama (yes, I am being facetious) did recieve ovations at the Pacific Forum, he got a bit of a telling off from the Solomon Islands rep.
    I find this whole move to 'brown solidarity' regardless of politics to be a very short-sighted move on the part of some activists. And no, I'm not being naive, I thinking in terms of Pacific Realpolitik.

    Christchurch • Since Jan 2007 • 175 posts Report Reply

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