OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: Summer of Shadbolt

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  • Graeme Edgeler,

    (And you can use a PO box, if you're concerned about personal safety.)

    No.

    It has to be a physical address. Under the Electoral Act it was allowed to be that of a business, under the EFA it must be of the place where you usually reside (i.e. a residential address).

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3004 posts Report Reply

  • Gary Hutchings,

    Bugger, Graeme beat me to it :)

    PO Boxes are not allowed ( unless you live in it)

    4 Interpretation

    (1) In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires,—
    address means,—

    (a) in relation to an individual, the full address of the place
    where that person usually lives:

    (b) in relation to a body corporate or unincorporated, the
    full address of its principal place of business or head
    office candidate means a constituency candidate, and a person who

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 108 posts Report Reply

  • FletcherB,

    Graeme....
    Looking at the actual registry of third parties that Keith linked to....

    It appears the "applicant" can supply a PO box, but the "financial agent" must supply a real street address...

    Which in the case of the "Free Speech Coalition", looks a little bizzarre when they are the same person, but have supplied two differing addresses.

    West Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • DPF,

    Keith - I take it you believe anonymous political blogs such as The Standard should be banned. I mean how can you advocate that Andy Moore has to put his name and home address on his $5 personal website which advocates against Labour as essential transparency, yet not apply the same standard to blogs?

    Do you really think transparency should depend on whether or not a website uses blog technology or not?

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 74 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    FletherB - yes.

    The person who promotes the advertisement (the promoter, if you will) always has to have their residential address on it, however.

    I would say, however that it's not that surprising having two different addresses - if I was signing up for something I'd probably put my PO Box. But if it required a residential address I'd include that too.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3004 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    David Farrar has done it.

    Ah, that'll be why his name appears under a huge photo of someone who looks uncannily like...David Farrar...on Jervois Quay

    As Private Eye would say, are David and Mao Tse-Tung related? :-)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1615 posts Report Reply

  • Max Call,

    The Standard (see link) has a story on Shadbolt and an ad someone has placed in the ODT
    http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=932

    Fruit Bowl of New Zealand… • Since Jun 2007 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    The objection to registration is even more absurd, when you consider that we have to register to vote, too. Is this, too, an "attempt to monitor political expression"? Actually, it is. It's to monitor political expression – voting – to stop votes from being cast twice, or by people pretending to be someone else, or in an electorate other than the one they live in, etc. We force people to register to vote to ensure that voting is fair; we force people to register or declare themselves on campaign material to ensure that campaigning is fair.

    Well, Keith, sorry for sounding like a broken record but my primary medium of "political expression" has been my membership in the New Zealand National Party. Depending on how involved you want to be, members of political parties have influence over candidate selection, policy development and formation, campaign strategy and endless opportunities to lobby caucus members at conferences, fundraisers and other events.

    So why don't we require these people to be open and transparent by requiring all registered political parties to have their (frequently updated and audited) membership rolls -- including residential addresses -- made publicly available?

    And just to be a little pedantic about your electoral roll analogy, you're quite right that everyone is required to register to vote. But not everyone's details are publicly available .

    I don't think there is anything intrinsically 'undemocratic' about my foster brother and his wife being on the unpublished roll when they were Police officers, who'd both been subject to threats and harassment by someone rather unpleasant characters.

    And I know this analogy isn't precise, but I'm quite pleased that DPF doesn't require commentators on Kiwiblog to post their residential addresses considering some of the psychotic loons I've locked horns with over the years.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11990 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    The Standard (see link) has a story on Shadbolt and an ad someone has placed in the ODT

    Could you point me towards The Standard's registration as a third party - I mean, its so easy even Farrar, who regurgitates Tory talking points as an evil running dog returns to its vomit, can do it. And, as usual, its always charming seeing folks who hide behind pseudonyms calling others liars and cowardly Hollow Men.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11990 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    Could you point me towards The Standard's registration as a third party

    I wouldn't think they're spending $12 000. But yes, the point at issue whether they need announce who they are.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1096 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    The funny thing about Mr Moore's website is that it's being (erm) heralded as his own work but the domain name is registered to Cameron Slater (aka Whale Oil) the National activist behind the KIll the Bill campaign:

    query_datetime: 2008-01-08T14:29:52+13:00
    domain_name: dontvotelabour.org.nz
    query_status: 200 Active
    domain_dateregistered: 2007-12-31T16:29:14+13:00
    domain_datebilleduntil: 2008-12-31T16:29:14+13:00
    domain_datelastmodified: 2007-12-31T16:32:09+13:00
    domain_delegaterequested: yes
    %
    ..
    %
    registrant_contact_name: Cameron Slater
    registrant_contact_address1: xxxxxxxxx
    registrant_contact_address2: Howick
    registrant_contact_city: Auckland
    registrant_contact_postalcode: 1705
    registrant_contact_country: NZ (NEW ZEALAND)
    registrant_contact_phone: xxxxxxxxxx
    registrant_contact_email: camslater@gmail.com

    --

    Would that complicate things any?

    Moore also mentioned the collaboration on the well-known masturbation site, SOLO Passion ...

    http://www.solopassion.com/node/4005

    Anyway, back to holiday ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18881 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    So... Is Mr. Moore being disingenuous or is he just a liar?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1806 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I'm not sure why Cameron Slater of dontvotelabour.org has a problem with publishing his details to comply with the law, when he's quite happy to make them available through a WhoIs search:
    admin_contact_name: Cameron Slater
    admin_contact_address1: xxxxxxxx
    admin_contact_address2: Howick
    admin_contact_city: Auckland
    admin_contact_postalcode: 1705
    admin_contact_country: NZ (NEW ZEALAND)
    admin_contact_phone: xxxxxxxx

    They should have drafted the law so that an accurate whois entry constituted compliance.

    The other thing they *should* have done is required an actual disadvantaged political party to file a complaint in order for any prosecution, so that if people want to deliberately challenge the law, they'll just be ignored.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4459 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Russell - great minds thinking simultaneously :-)

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4459 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Could you point me towards The Standard's registration as a third party

    "The Standard" is a personal blog, isn't it. Personal, non-commercial, and (in the dumbest piece of drafting ever - next thing you know they'll use the word W0Ot in legislation) in the form of a "blog".

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4459 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson,

    Is putting names on campaign material and registration too high a price to pay for transparency?

    The question of how the EFA restricts needs to be contextualised with what the EFA legitimises.

    In the context of the EFA the answer is yes. Requiring names on campaign material and restrictions of each individual participating in public debate, whilst at the same time allowing secretive $250,000 payments direct to politicians is too high a price to pay on our freedoms.

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    The funny thing about Mr Moore's website is that it's being (erm) heralded as his own work but the domain name is registered to Cameron Slater (aka Whale Oil) the National activist behind the KIll the Bill campaign:

    Slater not only registed Moore's blog, he's hosting it for free.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 901 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Would that complicate things any?

    Cameron explained his role in a comment on kiwiblog.

    The site is Andy's, being hosted by Cameron.

    I wouldn't think the Standard is spending $12 000. But yes, the point at issue whether they need announce who they are.

    If they're a 'blog they don't have to tell us who they are. I think DPF's point was to ask why such an exemption shouldn't apply more generally to all non-commercial personal websites.

    The question of whether the Standard is a 'blog (in terms of the definition in the EFA) is a question yet to be answered. They look like a 'blog, certainly, but I've heard it suggested that one or may be employees of the Labour Party.

    If any of the authors of The Standard are being paid to write it, then I'd say their publication of their views is "commercial" and the 'blog exemption wouldn't apply.

    I certainly don't have any real evidence that this is the case, and there's a good chance that it's idle and ill-informed gossip (or a smear), but it does tie with what I found out after the last election about keepleftnz - by speaking to someone from the PM's office who was involved - so I'm not prepared to completely discount the possibility.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3004 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Hey! Those were supposed to be square brackets indicating I'd edited a quote...

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3004 posts Report Reply

  • DPF,

    Cameron says at http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/01/herald_on_effects_of_electoral_finance_act.html#comment-391535 what his role is. And while his father is of course a former Party President, Cameron as far as I know has never even been a member.

    And incidentially I support the rights of bloggers to stay anonymous. I just think the law is inconsistent and worse of all it is not an error as an amendment extending the blog exemption to all non commercial speech on the Internet was voted down.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 74 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    Young Mr. Moore isn't quite the political innocent he likes to paint himself.

    From:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/story.cfm?c_id=1501154&objectid=10431152&pnum=0

    "Andy Moore
    Danna, from what you have said, your mother abused you - this is obviously not ok, - a smack applied to a child's hand or bottom by a loving parent however, is a different thing - and acceptable - www.politik.co.nz has march information plus more."

    Do a DNS lookup on www.politiks.co.nz - an extremist Christian anti-section 59 website - and lo, its registered in Christchurch (home of Andrew Moore, Christian libertarian)

    registrant_contact_name: mybook
    registrant_contact_address1: P.O. Box 8979
    registrant_contact_city: christchurch
    registrant_contact_country: NZ (NEW ZEALAND)
    registrant_contact_phone: +64 3 3574599
    registrant_contact_email: *********@gmail.com
    %
    admin_contact_name: mybook
    admin_contact_address1: P.O. Box 8979
    admin_contact_city: christchurch
    admin_contact_country: NZ (NEW ZEALAND)
    admin_contact_phone: +64 21 1140751
    admin_contact_email: *********@gmail.com
    %

    Ring the mobile number and lo, one is answered by the voice mail of... Andrew Moore.


    Clearly, the Herald's editorial writers can neither use a DNS lookup tool or their own site's search engine.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1806 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Okay, I haven't read the whole thing, but is that really all that 'extremist'?

    It might not incorporate my nuanced view on the issue, but it doesn't seem that "out there".

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3004 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    The thing is Andrew Moore has consistantly tried to paint himself as a previously non-politically active youth.

    He seeks to present himself in the media as a regular guy who is part of a groundswell of popular rebellion against the EFB.

    Clearly, he is lying when he tries to paint that media picture.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1806 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And incidentially I support the rights of bloggers to stay anonymous.

    And I didn't mean to give any impression to the contrary, but I think its fair comment to point out the fainted whiff of hypocrisy of people who denouncing so-called 'Hollow Men' from behind pseudonyms. Also, without wanting to fall into the trap of assuming correlation implies causation, is it pure coincidence that the ugliest trolls on Kiwiblog don't have the guts to put their real names to their toxic waste? I think this is one respect in which the blogisphere could usefully emulate the MSM - because I've never heard of a newspaper that would publish a letter to the editor without verifiable contact details.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11990 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    The thing is Andrew Moore has consistantly tried to paint himself as a previously non-politically active youth.

    Well I wasn't really taking issue with that statement - I wouldn't know one way or the other, but I'd thought I'd read somewhere of him explaining how he'd become politically active over section 59 (e.g. that he'd arranged Simon Barnett to speak at the Christchurch rally against the anti-smacking bill). Before that, you might know better than me...

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3004 posts Report Reply

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