Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The Clamour to Cringe

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  • Nat Torkington,

    I'm not saying looking at overseas successes and failures is a bad thing, as long as you don't think you can just pick up something that plays well in Broken Bottle, WA, drop it on Whykickamoocow High and expect to instantly get the same result. But I'd rather not see kids who don't get a second go at an education being used as lab rats, or reduced to a data point in a research paper.

    I'm not sure where this was suggested. The story was that NZ has pretty good test scores. Somehow that became "don't turn our kids into lab rats!".

    I'd love to know how you'd reform the education system. What would be the first policies in place should the Craig Ranapia First party be elected in 2008?

    Ti Point • Since Nov 2006 • 100 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Andrew, progress is still progress. If you can forget the past then even tiny little improvements that put you only 2 decades behind where you were a few years ago, seem like wonders.

    I imagine inmates in Guantanamo bay are extremely relieved the days they're allowed to, say, stand up, or not get waterboarded. That must seem like progress. And I accept that it is progress, but I will not forget that they shouldn't be in there in the first place, or that they have put up with years of hell.

    Nor will I forget that Iraq used to have a lot more people in it. I will not forget that this came about through a bunch of lies taken from intelligence, willfully misconstrued by Bush & Cronies. Especially not right now, when more intelligence comes out, which could be just as much lies and probably will be willfully misconstrued, in the hopes of doing to Iran what I'm supposed to forget happened to Iraq, because 20 less people got killed in sectarian violence in November, or whatever amazing signs of progress we are supposed to thank Bush & Cronies for.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    their little campaign to have New Zealanders send a bottle of a favourite flavour to distant friends

    I thought the favourite liquid gift from kiwis to overseas people was kiwi fruit liqueur.

    Can't count the number of times I've visiting overseas people with tenuous nz connections, who bring out an untouched bottle of the stuff received as a gift, hoping that an actual kiwi might want to drink the stuff.
    There must be dusty warehouses of the stuff waiting for the big break through in style and taste change.

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I'd love to know how you'd reform the education system. What would be the first policies in place should the Craig Ranapia First party be elected in 2008?

    If anyone was stupid enough to make me Prime Minister, that would be pretty conclusive evidence that public education is a total waste of time. But a good start would be if every education policy debate wasn't framed as Apocalypse Now(-ish). It might also help detox things a bit if the Education Ministry, NZQA etc. required senior management and spokesmen to speak and write plain English rather than managerial gobbledeygook. Perhaps I'm an old crank, but Yes, Minister is a sublime politcal satire not a staff training video.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Russell a while ago was discussing facebook advertising. I can't find the original post, so I'm going off topic.

    This was in my facebook feed this morning:

    eToro is A revolutionary platform that makes it faster and easier than ever to execute traders

    It seemed like a strange advert to me until I actually followed the link and realised that the advert had added an extra 'r' in the last word. 'Trades' made much more advertising sense, if less attractive to a lot of people I'm sure.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    If anyone was stupid enough to make me Prime Minister, that would be pretty conclusive evidence that public education is a total waste of time. But a good start would be if every education policy debate wasn't framed as Apocalypse Now(-ish). It might also help detox things a bit if the Education Ministry, NZQA etc. required senior management and spokesmen to speak and write plain English rather than managerial gobbledeygook. Perhaps I'm an old crank, but Yes, Minister is a sublime politcal satire not a staff training video.

    I was entertained Craig how your response followed what I find to be a standard National Party line, particularly in the Key reign. "Intelligent debate", "less bureaucracy", "no hip hop tours" etc, but not actually any policy, when that's what was asked for.

    Apparently policy talk trickles down, even if the benefits of new right restructuring never did.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Kyle, you don't get it. It is not intelligent to debate policy. That is what bureaucrats do. Politicians pick on something isolated and silly, like hip hop tours are when they're taken out of all context. That is intelligent.

    I'd feel a whole lot safer if National just said they were going to leave all policy to the bureaucrats, and spend their time in government intelligently debating hip hop tours. But I have a sneaky suspicion it ain't so.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    In light of this statement

    A retired Israeli diplomat said secrecy was key. For high-risk missions like a long-range bombing run, he said, "it would be unwise to check in, even with our closest allies, ahead of time".

    from the Harold this morning. I get the impression that we can expect the bombs to start falling on Christmas day. Think about it.
    When Geo Bush says

    "In August, I think it was [US intelligence chief] Mike McConnell came in and said, 'We have some new information.' He didn't tell me what the information was."

    it is yet even more of a worry.
    It's bad enough when someone has an imaginary Friend in the sky but when they have imaginary enemies it's a bigger worry.

    As for big white guys with beards that claim to know whether you've been bad or good the last time I saw one I sat on his knee and he tried to touch my cock.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I was entertained Craig how your response followed what I find to be a standard National Party line, particularly in the Key reign. "Intelligent debate", "less bureaucracy", "no hip hop tours" etc, but not actually any policy, when that's what was asked for.

    Oh and how delightfully predictable that was, Kyle. Just for the record, can I engage in a discussion without having a detailed manifesto to hand? And could you in future shit-can the dopey innendo that I 'follow a standard National Party line' rather than expressing my own views in good faith?

    To take a relatively mind example, could you make any sense of what the Education Ministry spokeswoman on Close Up last night was going on about? I find it very hard to engage with any policy debate - especially one as complex as education - when one side is having a fit of hysterical vapours, and the other is speaking utter gibberish.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Oh, and there might well be a few PAS readers who know more about the sector than I do, and would have more informed and insightful ideas to put out there. I can live with that.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    Craig, you did appear to make a claim that our children are sat in cold classrooms surrounded by incompetent teachers.

    If this *is* the case then it seems that such conditions create some very positive educational outcomes.

    Do you have any other research of facts that you can bring to the table. I know your writing is entertaining but I am looking for a little more substance.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1645 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Kyle, you don't get it. It is not intelligent to debate policy. That is what bureaucrats do. Politicians pick on something isolated and silly, like hip hop tours are when they're taken out of all context. That is intelligent.

    I'd feel a whole lot safer if National just said they were going to leave all policy to the bureaucrats, and spend their time in government intelligently debating hip hop tours. But I have a sneaky suspicion it ain't so.

    I stand corrected, Ben. Of course, its totally unreasonable to expect civil servants to communicate clearly with us stupid peasants; or provide clear and direct answers when elected members of Parliament and uppity media folks ask impertinent questions. Who do I think I am, a citizen of a parliamentary democracy?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Max Call,

    What I would like to see;

    1) resourcing for children with dyslexia (not currently recognised as a learning disability and as such no resources are allocated to specifically diagnose dyslexia and then help these children). I believe this would have a large impact on our 'long tail' of underachievers. Larger proportion of prison imates have dyslexia than the general population.

    2) better resourcing and support for schools to deal with severe behavioural and emotional issues of students. Schools do not have the people and other resources to deal with what some students need and the other outside groups do not have the necessary resources to help the schools. These kids then leave schools not getting the help they need and are out of view of the 'system' - until they end up gettng the attention of the police and/or mental health professionals.

    I could go on... however what i am trying to say is that there are so many opportunities not being taken to make a signficant positive difference in some childrens lives. And obviously making a significant positive difference in their lives benefits the whole community as well as the individual. I betcha its way more more cost-effective dealing with the issues when they're young than spending money building more prisons etc.

    Fruit Bowl of New Zealand… • Since Jun 2007 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    CIA RAG IRAN PA
    is an anagram of ?

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Craig, you did appear to make a claim that our children are sat in cold classrooms surrounded by incompetent teachers.

    Balls, Don. Sorry, I can't really be bothered being more polite but I'd love to introduce you to a few teachers who will be devastatingly blunt about their views on teacher recruitment and retention, training standards and infrastructure/resourcing issues. To get kinda back on topic, yes let's give all due credit where credit is due for improvements. But let's also keep a clear eye on where failures still exist -- they're real, complex and aren't addressed by either hysterical overstatements or jargon-clotted denial.

    And I make precisely NO apologies for criticising politicians and civil servants who use language to obfuscate rather than communicate.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Oh and how delightfully predictable that was, Kyle. Just for the record, can I engage in a discussion without having a detailed manifesto to hand? And could you in future shit-can the dopey innendo that I 'follow a standard National Party line' rather than expressing my own views in good faith?

    You can engage in a discussion however you want. Just, you were asked for policy, and provided none. Or at least provided what often gets trotted out as either National Party or ACT policy, which is not actually policy at all, it's... whinging about the current state of affairs.

    I don't mind whinging, particularly when things are crap, which they often are, but it's not policy. Policy is "we will put more money into XXX and change the law so that YYY", rather than "man people at the Ministry of Education talk crap".

    And I didn't say, or indeed use 'innendo' to say you were following the standard National Party line. Just found it entertaining that what came out of your post was exactly what people find frustrating about John Key. How you got to the post is up to you.

    To take a relatively mind example, could you make any sense of what the Education Ministry spokeswoman on Close Up last night was going on about?

    Can't say I watch Close Up. From your comments, I'm not sure why you watch it either :)

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Craig, if it's a choice between civil servants making policy without telling us what it is, or politicians, I'm undecided which is more democratic.

    As for clear and direct answers, I'd fall off my chair if any politician was ever so bold (without simultaneously being a complete liar or a political irrelevance). If I actually did want to know what policy is about something, the civil service is totally the place to go to for answers. It might be a long and frustrating search, sure, but very often the search for specific answers to specific questions is.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Max Call,

    teacher recruitment and retention, training standards

    maybe paying a decent salary would be a good start.
    I imagine a lot of people would be put off from a career in teaching as it doesn't pay well.

    I am a new teacher (recently finished my Grad Dip) and will start on $41k next year. This is sigificantly less than what I got in my previous job. I am also anticipating it will be a 'harder' job (work, stress, responsibility etc). I am, however, lucky enough that due to my partners salary job satisfaction can come top of my list.

    Fruit Bowl of New Zealand… • Since Jun 2007 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • jon_knox,

    CIA RAG IRAN PA
    is an anagram of ?

    nice!....(pauses to ponder how long Steve was doodling with Craig's name to come up with that....quickly finding an anagram generator to amuse himself)
    Again Crap Air
    Pagan Car Air I
    A Car Nag Pair I

    I nominate Steve's anagram for Anagram of the year.

    No offense intended Craig :o)

    Belgium • Since Nov 2006 • 464 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    I can't really be bothered being more polite

    Well, I wasn't expecting you to make an exception for me.

    they're real, complex and aren't addressed by either hysterical overstatements

    So, let's hear it without the hysteria, please.

    If the solution is more investment in training, salaries, infrastructure tell us.

    Also tell us what would be a good way of paying for that investment. Should it be through taxation, fees, PPP's? Any thoughts?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1645 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Ok
    Iran nuclear threat
    Anagram = Clean in a rare truth.
    beat that for weird.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    beat that for weird.

    LOL very very good. I wonder if that's the amazing new intel. CIA codecracking machines have finally had Allah speak directly to them.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Max Call,

    Should it be through taxation, fees, PPP's?

    taxation, definitely.

    Fruit Bowl of New Zealand… • Since Jun 2007 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • Luke Williamson,

    Again, back to the original post - the point Russell was making that all the policy, funding and everything else that goes into the education system does seem to be keeping us near the top of the educational pile on a world-wide basis. Yes, we have problems and a disappointing "tail" of under-achievers but it's a big ship that takes a while to turn. I beg your forgiveness for horrible overuse and mixing of metaphors.
    As soon as you discuss raising taxes for education or health or whatever, you get howls from the right wing "less tax/user pays" fraternity.
    I admit now that I think taxation is the most efficient way of funding public services and I agree that I would rather pay more up front for primary health services and education than later for poor health and prisons. Over simplified, I know but I'm sure you get my lefty drift.

    Warkworth • Since Oct 2007 • 297 posts Report Reply

  • tim kong,

    god. that's annoying.

    Lost my entire post.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 153 posts Report Reply

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