Hard News: A fiction of unalloyed darkness
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
The fact of Daisey's confession doesn't seem to be an impediment to their beliefs.
And I'm pretty fucking sick of seeing TAL host/producer Ira Glass being patted on the back for his "integrity" in promptly retracting a story on his show whose fabrications were pretty brutally - and comprehensively - fisked. As my Nana used to say: It's all very nice saying sorry, but even better to have nothing to apologize for in the first place.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I don’t get this. Why would anyone expect a theatre piece to be literally true?
Because it was presented as such by its author, both on and off stage.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
I don't get this. Why would anyone expect a theatre piece to be literally true?
When it's being presented as a "memoir" or a "documentary play" (or even that delightfully fuzzy genre the 'biopic'), I think that expectation is real and not unreasonable.
Here's now This American Life is described on it's own website:
The radio show and TV show follow the same format. There’s a theme to each episode, and a variety of stories on that theme. It’s mostly true stories of everyday people, though not always.
Call me an old fogey, if you must, but when you're billing yourself as mostly truth, but part fiction keeping that distinction clear is a non-trivial thing to do.
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3410, in reply to
My question was really in relation to the craig-supported proposed general rule, rather than to the Daisey case specifically.
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3410,
Call me an old fogey, if you must, but when you're billing yourself as mostly truth, but part fiction keeping that distinction clear is a non-trivial thing to do.
Possibly. Alternatively, one could say that if it's billed as part fiction, then don't be surprised if it's part fiction.
Anyhow, I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert on this case. I haven't followed it quite closely enough for that, so won't be getting into a big wrangle about it.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
When in Rome...
one could say that if it’s billed as part fiction,
then don’t be surprised if it’s part fiction.a 'roman-a-clef' perhaps...
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
it’s reasonably easy to try and buy ethical food
But it's actually quite a bit harder to succeed.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
Why would anyone expect a theatre piece to be literally true?
No really, Martin Sheen is NOT the president.
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papango, in reply to
Possibly. Alternatively, one could say that if it's billed as part fiction, then don't be surprised if it's part fiction.
The fiction parts of TAL are usually really clearly labelled as fiction. It's not a case where stories are a mix of fact and fiction, each one is either fact or fiction and is introduced as such.
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3410,
The fiction parts of TAL are usually really clearly labelled as fiction.
Fair enough. I'm not going to argue that Daisey got it right - he's admitted he didn't - or even that TAL is blameless.
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Greg Dawson, in reply to
No really, Martin Sheen is NOT the president.
Bet he'd have a strong chance of winning the democratic nomination next time it comes around though.
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Sacha, in reply to
he'd be a cracking Prime Minister too
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
My question was really in relation to the craig-supported proposed general rule, rather than to the Daisey case specifically.
Have you ever heard of Spalding Gray - he was a "performance artist" who developed quite a reputation for his first-person autobiographical monologues. But part of their charm is that Gray was candid to a fault that everything was filtered through, and almost certainly distorted by, his mare's nest of neurosis, frequent episodes of suicidal depression and messy relationships with women. He never claimed to tell "THE TRUTH" just what he remembered with a whole lot of caveats attached.
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3410,
Have you ever heard of Spalding Gray
Yeah, I saw one of his in the mid-'90s (probably Gray's Anatomy).
For the record, I was somewhat playing Devil's Advocate.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
For the record, I was somewhat playing Devil's Advocate.
Which you do beautifully, cherub. :)
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Chris Waugh, in reply to
Although in the comments, it’s striking that several people have been able to convince themselves that Daisey’s translator is a stooge put up by Apple and the Chinese government.
Unfortunately another common tactic when people are presented with stories that don't fit their preconceived China narrative. It's easier to write inconvenient alternative views off as an evil Commie plot than accept that one's own view might not be as perfect or complete as it so comfortably feels. And of course, on this side of the Great Firewall, the same process happens in reverse.... Basically, people are more interested in comfort than truth.
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If you go on a stage and say that you personally saw something, and the show in which you make this claim is not clearly identified in some meaningful way as “fiction” or “fictionalized,” [Emphasis mine] then you’d better have seen it–especially if you tell your audiences that they need to take action based on what you claim to have seen.
Surely that challenge could firstly be entrusted to politicians, religious leaders, media organizations and witnesses. It’s problematic in that the stage (especially for the performance artist) is often a symbolic term. Teachout’s commandment would kill stand up comedy as we know it, Sacha Baron Cohen’s career would be in tatters. The Exit through the Gift shop/ Forgotten Silver ilk would lose a lot of its appeal. Despite the disclaimer at the beginning Orson Welle’s War of the Worlds broadcast October 30, 1938:
The woman rushed to the pulpit, telling the pastor, “Something so terrible has happened that I must interfere.”
She told worshippers that “New York has been destroyed” and added: “I believe the end of the world has come. I heard it over the radio.”
The pastor offered a short prayer and excused anyone who wanted to return home. Several members of the choir “doffed robes and went from the church, followed by a portion of the congregation,” the Star reported. But the service continued.
Soon, several members of the congregation returned, explaining sheepishly that the alarm had been caused by nothing more than a misunderstood radio show.
In this case also, it was Welles the artist who had the most to gain. That As you like it quote comes to mind.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Unfortunately another common tactic when people are presented with stories that don’t fit their preconceived China narrative. It’s easier to write inconvenient alternative views off as an evil Commie plot than accept that one’s own view might not be as perfect or complete as it so comfortably feels. And of course, on this side of the Great Firewall, the same process happens in reverse…. Basically, people are more interested in comfort than truth.
Or to put it succinctly, no true Scotsman <insert heinous action here>.
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When it’s being presented as a “memoir” or a “documentary play” (or even that delightfully fuzzy genre the ‘biopic’), I think that expectation is real and not unreasonable.
I mean, I'm not sure how realistic or reasonable that expectation is Craig. This case seems symptomatic of the age we live in. An age where the inquisitive mind is hindered only by its own voluntary subjugation.
You are the man on the pulse Sacha, thanks for the help with that link.
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Sacha, in reply to
you also need the 'http://' at the beinning of that youtube link before it will embed here automatically
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