Hard News: Drunk Town
217 Responses
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It’s not the place of the authorities to proscribe private behaviour, except insofar as it endangers people.
Totally agree with you, but it is their place to issue and enforce liquor licenses. I'm pretty sure the terms of every liquor license in Auckland say you’re not supposed to get your patrons in a state where they’re power-chucking all over the ceilings of public loos, but I may have missed something.
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sonsequently: when two events appear to be causally linked, but only when you're drunk.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Totally agree with you, but it is their place to issue and enforce liquor licenses. I’m pretty sure the terms of every liquor license in Auckland say you’re not supposed to get your patrons in a state where they’re power-chucking all over the ceilings of public loos, but I may have missed something.
True. Otoh, I have some sympathy. Pre-loading seems to be a real problem. The punter who turns up to your club might not even have had time to absorb all the alcohol they've forced down on the way there.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
sonsequently: when two events appear to be causally linked, but only when you’re drunk.
Shurely shome mishtake.
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bmk, in reply to
I'm pretty sure the terms of every liquor license in Auckland say you’re not supposed to get your patrons in a state where they’re power-chucking all over the ceilings of public loos
I agree but isn't it hard for people in a quick encounter (like serving a drink, or seeing someone at a door) to actually tell if someone is intoxicated? If you know someone well, or have been with them throughout the evening - sure you can tell. But I think it would often be hard for bar staff/door people to tell if someone is really intoxicated.
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Hadyn Green, in reply to
Pre-loading seems to be a real problem.
Though hardly a new one either. And Auckland does not have a monopoly on large gatherings of drunk youth. Just ask any of the Wellington readers about how much they enjoy Courtenay Place after midnight on the weekends.
O, to be young and foolish again...
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Martin Lindberg, in reply to
But I think it would often be hard for bar staff/door people to tell if someone is really intoxicated.
May not be easy, but their license depends on them doing this. I've seen plain-clothes police do checks on bars where they see someone get served and then decide (by talking to them) that the person was indeed intoxicated and should not have been served. The customer hasn't done anything wrong, but the bar could lose its license.
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I don't like the discretion that "drunk and disorderly" laws can provide the police. But it sure seems a more direct approach to hitting the real harms: throw drunk belligerent people in the drunk tank for a few hours and send them away with a fine.
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Sacha, in reply to
The punter who turns up to your club might not even have had time to absorb all the alcohol they've forced down on the way there.
How does that affect the bartender's legal obligations not to sell to pissed people? Are preloaded punters harder to assess?
Or are the commercial imperatives so strong and the enforcement so lax that it seems worth the risk? Someone else's problem.
ah, snap bmk
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That would seem to be the ideal response. Instead of hand-wringing, how about actually enforcing the liquor laws as they are supposed to?
Interestingly (or not, YMMV) I saw a UK TV show about policing in Yorkshire the other day and aside from the accents (and the incredibly pale skin) it looked a lot like K Road to me.
I lived on Queen Street for many years and rarely did I feel unsafe - that was quite some time ago no.
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Sacha, in reply to
how about actually enforcing the liquor laws as they are supposed to
Exactly. How hard is it to remind license-holders that it's a privilege that comes with responsibilities. I'd expect hospitality sector organisations to back that strongly as well.
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James Butler, in reply to
Pre-loading seems to be a real problem. The punter who turns up to your club might not even have had time to absorb all the alcohol they've forced down on the way there.
This suggests a real practical benefit to the long lines outside popular clubs: making people wait long enough that the pre-loading kicks in.
The other, well-known benefit is that it signals to punters of taste that the club in question is worth avoiding.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Interestingly (or not, YMMV) I saw a UK TV show about policing in Yorkshire the other day and aside from the accents (and the incredibly pale skin) it looked a lot like K Road to me.
Can’t say I felt terribly unsafe walking home from dinner in York at 11.30 on a Friday night. And finding ourselves in the middle of a gargantuan Pride street party in Brussels was an experience (with a large but low-key & non-confrontational police presence) but not an unpleasant one. Yes, there were plenty of people who were, shall we say, chemically enhanced (it was also obvious many jazz cigarettes were being consumed) but it was rather nice to also see plenty of people looking out for each other.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Interestingly (or not, YMMV) I saw a UK TV show about policing in Yorkshire the other day and aside from the accents (and the incredibly pale skin) it looked a lot like K Road to me.
There's a show called Booze Britain that's compellingly awful viewing. It's hard to believe how wasted on alcohol people want to get.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
how about actually enforcing the liquor laws as they are supposed to
Exactly. How hard is it to remind license-holders that it’s a privilege that comes with responsibilities. I’d expect hospitality sector organisations to back that strongly as well.
True, but ejecting someone from a bar doesn't mean they'll suddenly become self-reflective and go home. They're just lurching around the streets, possibly a bit angry.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
There’s a show called Booze Britain that’s compellingly awful viewing. It’s hard to believe how wasted on alcohol people want to get.
OTOH, the week we were in London I honestly didn’t see any signs of the Yob-pocalypse. Liverpool and Bristol failed to live down to reputation; and my one (mildly) scary moment was in Bath. Go figure. Heathrow would make a saint want to get fucked up and smash shit, but that’s a whole other story…
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Sacha, in reply to
It's also an existing crime to be intoxicated in public. Someone might ask the Police what's stopping them from doing their job.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Years ago, we visited Glasgow while it was that year's European City of Culture and thus had special extended opening hours.
I've never been a place where there were so many people steaming drunk on the streets. But oddly, it wasn't threatening at all.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
It’s also an existing crime to be intoxicated in public. Someone might ask the Police what’s stopping them from doing their job.
Common misconception. It is not an offence to be intoxicated in public in New Zealand. And I’m actually not sure it should be.
Unless you're causing a public nuisance (which is an offence) or need to be picked up for your own safety, your state of mind should be your own business.
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Lest I come across all nannyish, want to make clear I'm all for sociable fun and recognise drinking is part of that in our culture. Just unimpressed with the way the conversation seems to veer towards needing new laws or something. Would be good to help flush out the 'youth having fun' whiners.
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Sacha, in reply to
ah, have been mislead. oops.
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James Butler, in reply to
Common misconception. It is not an offence to be intoxicated in public in New Zealand. And I’m actually not sure it should be.
Quite. How would one legally get home from the pub?
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Russell Brown, in reply to
ah, have been mislead. oops.
The offence was removed in 1986 – unless you’re under 18, when it is an offence to consume or be intoxicated by alcohol in a public place.
If you’re drunk in public you should be prosecuted or fined, bar owners say.
They serve up millions of alcoholic drinks each year, but publicans want drinkers to face criminal liability if caught intoxicated in a public place.
They say it’s unfair that liquor licence holders are prosecuted for letting in drunks – but individuals face no legal penalty.
Licensees who admit or serve drunk patrons can have their licences suspended or cancelled by the Liquor Licensing Authority. They also face fines of up to $10,000 in the district court.
But Hospitality New Zealand says most alcohol-related problems in the central city involve young drinkers “pre-loading” at home on cheap alcohol before heading into town.
“The industry just increasingly feels blamed for this culture,” Hospitality NZ regional manager Sara Tucker said.
“If we really want to deal with this sort of issue we must bring some personal responsibility for the drinkers into this equation."
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throw drunk belligerent people in the drunk tank for a few hours and send them away with a fine
And how about along with the fine or in lieu, they are made to help clean up the street, loos etc in the cold grey light of dawn to provide some opportunity for that self reflectiveness.
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I should also note that the CBD liquor ban improved things. Although I'm always amazed by people who want to argue the toss about that with the police. I was out one time with a group that included one guy who ended up getting himself arrested by being a total dick about pouring out his beer.
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