Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Fix up, young men

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  • Chris Werry,

    English football ban racists and other undesirables from their stadiums. Laneway and all other promoters should do likewise and ban Sean Philip and Thomas Insel. Stick their photos up at the gate.

    Since Mar 2009 • 13 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Richie Hardcore has written strongly about this too:

    Last night, my girlfriend was accosted, live on national television, by two boys who thought it would be cool to grope her, get in her space and yell the sexually aggressive phrase "fuck her right in the pussy." Apparently it's a popular viral internet thing to do if you're a rapey pissed up fuck boi. It's funny some say. Despite having boys she didn't know touch her without permission and embarrass her on TV, I thought she played it pretty cool live on air, laughing it off as girls the world over seem to learn to do in our culture. The thing is, they shouldn't have to.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22753 posts Report Reply

  • Marcelo Rodriguez Ferrere,

    I'm truly shocked that this sort behaviour occurred; as much as was angry over the interview of Vinnell's harassers (you may have seen contriteness; I saw nothing of the sort).

    But what is the solution here? They, sadly, aren't going to stay away from these festivals. And if the otherwise decent crowd wasn't aware of what was going on, how can we expect the behaviour to be shut down by security or others when it occurs? I can understand Jean's distress - I genuinely am angry that her Courtney experience was ruined - and it's enough to put me off from these sorts of events, since I just can't see that sort of scenario being prevented or stopped in the future. Ugh.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 33 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    What surprised me after watching Kim Vinnell's interview with the entitled and sexist young men last night, was Duncan Garner's disbelief about this type of behaviour. Is it just invisible to a lot of other men? Sexism, ageism (and of course racism and ableism- which is not specifically mentioned here) is so common and rampant out there in NZ, especially when mixed with alcohol.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3199 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Marcelo Rodriguez Ferrere,

    and it's enough to put me off from these sorts of events, since I just can't see that sort of scenario being prevented or stopped in the future. Ugh.

    And yet, that's letting them win As I noted, the irony is that this was in other ways a festival of strong, creative women.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22753 posts Report Reply

  • Marcelo Rodriguez Ferrere,

    Stick their photos up at the gate.

    That's a good idea, and a start. Zero tolerance (with real repercussions and consequences) in order to effect a culture change must be the way forward. Genuine question: did it/has it worked for football?

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 33 posts Report Reply

  • James Dunne,

    It's the total lack of consequences that grates with me. Nothing will happen to these guys. They won't get charged with disorderly or offensive behaviour. They won't be banned from every venue in the country for the rest of their lives. They'll get a couple days of the chattering classes clucking at them and then they'll go back to having oafish fun at other people's (for which read, women) expense.

    And people wonder what 'rape culture' is.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2013 • 25 posts Report Reply

  • Marcelo Rodriguez Ferrere, in reply to Russell Brown,

    And yet, that’s letting them win

    Yes, it most certainly is. Hence the sadness and anger I'm feeling over this.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 33 posts Report Reply

  • Raymond A Francis,

    Disgraceful and totally unacceptable
    And as a man, let's be prepared to speak out and act when we see or hear this
    Because it is only when all of us make it plain how uncool this behaviour is that there will be any control

    45' South • Since Nov 2006 • 576 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Attachment

    Another report, on Twitter, from James Dann.

    And as he points out, how can you filter for this by changing the lineup when this happens during a performance by an overtly feminist pop star?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22753 posts Report Reply

  • steve newall,

    During Grimes a few young women hopped up on boys' shoulders. What happened next was that EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of them had their tops unzipped, undone etc, and attempts made to forcibly remove them. Even bras were being unhooked. About 2/3 of the culprits - other young women who seemed to be "friends". Really foul to watch.

    Since Nov 2006 • 3 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Werry, in reply to James Dunne,

    It’s the total lack of consequences that grates with me.

    The police should prosecute these idiots for offensive behaviour – it’s a clear breach of s4 of the Summary Offences Act http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1981/0113/latest/DLM53500.html

    Maybe a $1,000 fine might act as a deterrent.

    Since Mar 2009 • 13 posts Report Reply

  • James Littlewood*,

    Bloody depressing. Are the young men the product of conservative political leadership, or is the conservative political leadership the product of a society that's becoming so conservative it's retarded. Literally, going backwards.

    Lately this country feels like it did in the 1970s. Who are are the influential male gender commentators providing some kind of positive behavioural framework? Gordon McLauchlan, you there? Felix Donnelly? John Clarke?

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 410 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah, in reply to Marcelo Rodriguez Ferrere,

    But what is the solution here?

    Step up. Call out the behaviour whenever you see it. Yes, young men need to sort their behaviour out, but we also need other men to actively object to the behaviour. I know some men who do already, but it needs to be many men. It's not enough to be the ordinary decent kind of chap who wouldn't behave like that himself. There needs to be a much more proactive effort to object to the behaviour.

    Also, believe women when they say that low level sexual harassment is constant. Seriously, it is. Even for older women.

    Great post, thank you, Russell.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Marcelo Rodriguez Ferrere, in reply to Deborah,

    Step up. Call out the behaviour whenever you see it.

    Absolutely. And from all accounts, the behaviour was overt and obvious to others. Those others, and yes, especially other men, if they didn't, should've spoken out. What a wake up call this is.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 33 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Fortunately, I refreshed the page before typing exactly what Deborah just did. Call it out when you see it. Not just the behaviour itself, but the blame-shifting that enables it. It's not women's fault for being somewhere being female. And it's NOT alcohol's fault. There's a book called Why Does He Do That by a therapist called Lundy Bancroft who deals with abusive men. And while the book concentrates on domestic abuse, this is all on the same continuum. He says he's never seen a man who is only abusive when he's drunk. Booze is just one of the things that provides these men with an excuse for their behaviour. Oh, but I was drunk, so I'm not responsible for what I did. He might have a drinking problem, but he also has a Being an Arsehole problem.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    This bloody enrages me.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2537 posts Report Reply

  • SHG,

    I believe it's just "Lion" (a 100% owned subsidiary of Kirin) now. "Lion Nathan" hasn't existed since the takeover.

    nup • Since Oct 2010 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • James Littlewood*,

    I remember Jello Biafra stopping the DKs mid song (Too Drunk to Fuck, if I remember rightly) to remove a violent skin head from Mainstreet. Admittedly, the skinhead was directing his violence at a crowd surfing Jello. But if you were a performer, and you saw some shitty behaviour in the crowd, what do you do?

    When women on shoulders were being attacked and molested, how far away were the security guards? Is it old fashioned of me to think their job is to extinguish precisely that kind of behaviour?

    Photos at the gate sounds good, like petty thieves at supermarkets. But obvious practical and legal challenges.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 410 posts Report Reply

  • Tim Michie,

    And if you think it's not on someone can't see music at a festival without this idiocy and worse, let's think about those times it happens in everyday situations - at home, at the pub, at work. It isn't 'just a laugh.' Someone in the equation is undermined and unsafe. 'Oh, but that guy wouldn't do anything worse.' It's exactly that sort of guy that can overstep what you consider okay if they aren't challenged. So lets step up and call this out when we see it. If you feel afraid of doing so remember you feel nothing near as afraid as the victim of the abuse. Because that's what it is: abuse.

    Auckward • Since Nov 2006 • 614 posts Report Reply

  • bob daktari, in reply to James Littlewood*,

    Lately this country feels like it did in the 1970s.

    I am increasingly depressed at the thought that over my adult life nothing seems to have progressed other than inequality.

    In my world there was always an unwritten rule that you looked out for those vulnerable in a crowd (mosh pits etc), protecting them and ensuring that they had as much fun as those larger and more powerful around them - so sorry to see this wasn't the case on Monday

    auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 537 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye,

    I feel like Laneway’s crowd has moved away from hipster & toward.. something else. I haven’t had any negative experiences, but when it was still in Aotea Square, I enjoyed people-watching – lots of skinny jeans and vintage/rockabilly types to admire, & it was all quite dignified.

    But now I feel like the pub/club natives have just taken over now, along with their drinking culture. Didn’t go last year, but it was apparent in 2014.

    Saw someone mention a prevalence of bassy dance music, and I noticed that element on the day. I wonder if that’s part of it (that is, I've been trying to work out what would cause the shift)

    Might just be me showing my age. But I really miss the hipsters. I liked the hipsters.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 532 posts Report Reply

  • Nick Russell,

    There's an elephant in the room that isn't being discussed here. My experience of 30 plus years of attending gigs is that audiences can be very tribal. If you are the wrong age, gender, colour or just dress wrong you will be a target for someone, and alcohol makes it worse. Not all gigs are like that, but there is always a risk. Gigs can be events with a friendly harmonious vibe. But I have been to a lot that weren't.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 122 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye,

    Tangential: a friend just broke up with a guy she liked after a few pleasant dates. They were having a political discussion online that got slightly heated, and she suggested they hold off until they could talk about it in RL. He responded that all feminists should fuck off and die in a fire, including her.

    I’m starting to feel like we’ve hit some kind of acrimonious critical mass, like there’s a deep festering wound in society, both off- and online right now.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 532 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Heather Gaye,

    Saw someone mention a prevalence of bassy dance music, and I noticed that element on the day. I wonder if that’s part of it.

    I do wonder. But when that bass music includes the overtly feminist Grimes, who do you do?

    I did think there was less general crowd hassle this year, and plenty of lovely people to watch. But also, the meatheads.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22753 posts Report Reply

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