Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Stop the Enabling

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  • ScottY,

    Mason's been found guilty, but has not actually been convicted - yet.

    Maybe that trip to Disneyland will happen after all. Won't someone please think of the children?

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Martin,

    I note too that soon we will be asked in a referendum :

    '“Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?”

    *sigh*

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 187 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    This case precisely shows why the s59 repeal was so necessary. It seems fairly plausible that he may have got away with punching his 4 year old in the face under the old laws.


    I'm not sure I agree. It's hard to see how anyone could argue punching a child in the face was reasonable force.

    As Fletcher has noted, people argued that hitting a child with a bullwhip was reasonable force, and it worked. Before that case, would you have said: "It's hard to see how anyone could argue hitting a child with a bullwhip was reasonable force"?

    And some people on Your Views are arguing that the conviction was too much:

    "Realist (Auckland)
    PC world gone mad. And what double standards. If this is 'assault' then I expect boys who fight at school to be prosecuted. Also rugby players who throw a punch - often see by us all on TV. I want them in court too for the sake of fairness.

    ... Who was injured? Who needed medical attention? Sorry, I cant see that this is assault at all. It's BS".

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • Dave Moskovitz,

    A smack on the hand with a plastic spatula then they get a cuddle afterwards.

    And so a new generation of BDSM enthusiasts is formed.

    There is a link between BDSM and having been lovingly smacked as a child, as you can read on The Yes Vote web site.

    Wellington • Since May 2009 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    then I expect boys who fight at school to be prosecuted. Also rugby players who throw a punch - often see by us all on TV. I want them in court too for the sake of fairness.

    Seems quite reasonable to me ... just like you shouldn't be hitting your kids you should be teaching them to not be hitting others too .... this "a little bit of violence" is normal and OK is what needs to be nipped in the bud

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2606 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1115 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    err - that should be:

    "a little bit of violence is normal and OK" is what needs to be nipped in the bud

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2606 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    There is a link between BDSM and having been lovingly smacked as a child, as you can read on The Yes Vote web site.

    What it say on the yes vote webiste is:

    Corporal punishment before age 12 significantly increases the probability of future verbal and physical sexual coersion [sic]

    I suggest you learn the difference between 'coercion' and 'consensual' before you get yourself in a lot of trouble.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Eddie Clark,

    Dave Moskovitz:

    The link refers to risky sexual behaviour... Risky sexual behaviour like same-sex stuff? Or safe, sane, consensual BDSM?

    Come on man, I agree with your position re smacking, don't use Wishartian innuendo to support it.

    Upthread I was making a (poor taste) joke, you appear to be serious. Emma, this makes my apology even more abject, if this is the sort of thing that is regularly trotted out (and believed!).

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 273 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    McCroskie writes it down

    Without wishing to deprive Scoop of any page views, here's part of it:

    Family First NZ says that if Christchurch father Jimmy Mason has been found guilty of punching his son in the face, then his conviction is completely justified.

    "But the jury may have decided that it was only an ear flick, which Jimmy Mason himself admitted doing," says Bob McCoskrie, National Director of Family First NZ.

    "The jury may not have believed that a punch happened, but had to convict the father for the ear flick because it was deemed correction."

    This is so unbelievably disingenuous, I can barely convey my contempt for it.

    But I'll try: The judge made a point of observing that the jury had accepted the evidence of witnesses. The witnesses said Mason punched his four year-old in the face with a closed fist, and was unrepentant it about after the fact.

    I didn't really think my disgust for McCoskrie could get any greater. But it has. Yet again, he has put up his hand as an enabler of child abuse. There is no other way of seeing it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22754 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Hmm! Dressing for dinner? It could be embarrassing if you didn't, especially if the neighbours call by unexpectedly. You could also drop bits of food in the most awkward places.

    I guess that the Mason case just demonstrates the impossibility of changing the minds of idealogues, despite contrary evidence staring them in the face.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2537 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Emma, this makes my apology even more abject, if this is the sort of thing that is regularly trotted out (and believed!).

    It's the polite end. It's usually followed by being patronised and then ignored when you have the guts to stand up and say 'actually, I was never smacked as a child, not once, and that still wouldn't explain the thing with the ropes'.

    A feminist academic who blogs a lot about BDSM (her id is ninedeuce, I'm not linking to her) actually said that if people really genuinely DID have BDSM desires that were natural to them, they should commit suicide.

    I think part of the problem is that a lot of nice, genuine people think they know what BDSM is, and don't. I guess I should attempt to fix that.

    I do, however, at least have The Renegade on my side:

    Sure, I’ve seen it before, I am sure I will see it again, but it is really, really standing out this time. That thing? The outcry- sometimes made with reason, sometimes with an attempt to appeal to empathy, sometimes made with resounding rage- on the part of BDSM participants to be seen as…

    Human.

    Not deluded, not programmed, not victims, or trapped, or insane or stupid, not pathetic, not wicked, not weak, but human.

    Like everyone else.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    I agree all the law change did was remove a defence and this seems lost on nearly everyone.

    The mass of the debate in the media is mindless and makes no difference to anything at all; the bulk of debate is centred on nothing and addresses no real issue.

    Most of the pundits on either side are to busy admiring and polishing their own view to the extent they haven’t got to grips with anything other than themselves.

    TV and Radio have over the last year spent a lot of time interviewing or promoting comment from people who have clearly not even read the law. Research budgets must be limited to $1.60 a day – which covers the cost of the Herald.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1224 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Wonder what a gruntle looks like?

    A bit like a kune kune pig wearing an army surplus backpack.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4316 posts Report Reply

  • Eddie Clark,

    Possibly best discussed somewhere else, Emma (to avoid complete and total threadjacking), but I'd love to know a) if you've read Jacqueline Carey and b) what you think of her books :). There isn't a PM function on PA System, is there?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 273 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    "The jury may not have believed that a punch happened, but had to convict the father for the ear flick because it was deemed correction."

    Surely this is some sort of contempt of court?

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Heh, I can take a minute to say, I LOVE Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel books (her other fantasy, not so much). For someone who didn't know anything at all about BDSM they might promote a few misunderstandings, but she represents the emotional and physiological experience very well.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    Surely this is some sort of contempt of court?

    Contempt for commenting on what the jury did or thought? It's not contempt. It's freedom of speech.

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Eddie, Rich: I think David M is referring to this sentence:

    "Many people who condone smacking their children say that it should only be done lovingly, but Straus’s research shows that the link between corporal punishment and masochistic sex is greatest when the parents are warm and loving."

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Contempt for commenting on what the jury did or thought? It's not contempt. It's freedom of speech.

    Quite. Even rank idiots have that right.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22754 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    Quite. Even rank idiots have that right.

    Even Rankin idiots.

    Oops, wrong thread.

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    The mass of the debate in the media is mindless and makes no difference to anything at all; the bulk of debate is centred on nothing and addresses no real issue.

    I don't think I'm the only person who checked out of the whole S. 59 argument when it seemed compulsory to choose between the Marquis De Sade or Karl Marx.

    Surely this is some sort of contempt of court?

    If it is, then a lot of people around here who were speculating on the thought processes of the jury in the Rickards Case (including myself) are too.

    Quite. Even rank idiots have that right.

    But nobody is obliged to enable them with a platform. Sorry, I don't mean to crush anyone's dissent here but isn't it time for journalists to take Family First, the Sensible Sentencing Trust and my old chum Greg O'Connor off the speed dial until they STOP MAKING SHIT UP.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    I agree all the law change did was remove a defence and this seems lost on nearly everyone.

    Because it entirely misses the point.

    The existence of defences cannot be treated as an entirely separate matter from the offences to which they are a defence.

    Yes, the use of any force falls within the definition of assault. But not all uses of force are or have been criminal.

    Smacking was generally legal because there was a defence. Surgery is generally legal because there is a defence.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3202 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    But nobody is obliged to enable them with a platform. Sorry, I don't mean to crush anyone's dissent here but isn't it time for journalists to take Family First, the Sensible Sentencing Trust and my old chum Greg O'Connor off the speed dial until they STOP MAKING SHIT UP.

    Wow, I've had a brilliant idea -- a cross-media zero tolerance policy for bullshit and bullshitters. Of course, it would require putting a good chunk of their staff on gardening leave but leading by example can't be a bad thing. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • p forrester jarvie,

    "Sorry, guys, I don't find it funny. Perhaps because of the number of times any BDSMer will be told they MUST have been abused as a child."


    forgive me but i do not understand what is meant here, exactly!
    "..the numberr of times ANY BDSMer will be told.." told by whom?

    this doesn't correspond to much in my own experience!

    Since Feb 2009 • 84 posts Report Reply

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