Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: What about that Welfare Working Group, then?

178 Responses

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  • giovanni tiso,

    I wanted to have a competition on my blog for best submission. But if you were to do it Russell it would be waaaaay more useful.

    Apart from that I need the rage about other things to fall under a certain level before I even begin to read past the most immediate reports.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg,

    The link “Same old ideas with a new lick of paint?” leads to a Scoop story on the mining explosion?

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    [EDIT: deleted double post of shame]

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Whoops!

    Not now it doesn’t …

    Update: Gah! Supermodel is not loading.

    This is the link:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1011/S00280/options-for-moving-to-a-well-performing-welfare-system.htm

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22753 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher, in reply to Martin Lindberg,

    I thought it was an symbolic Suck.com-style link, imply that the WWG's recommendations were the explosion that would trap beneficiaries in the mine shaft of poverty.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1946 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    New Zealand will be free of untaxpayers.

    The DPB will hereafter be referred to as the Sexcrime Unbenefit.

    Economic and social forecasts predict doubleplusgood outcomes.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5416 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg,

    Whoops!

    Not now it doesn’t …

    Now I'm all alone on the duplicate thread...

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Please return to your seats while the threads are merged.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22753 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    For informed rage, download the report and previous submissions from the WWG's lair.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19685 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    If you want a constructive alternative, I've always favoured a Universal Basic Income. That, and a maximum wage of around $300k a year
    .

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    That, and a maximum wage of around $300k a year

    The chief advantage of which would be the calibre of the people we'd lose.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Update: Gah! Supermodel is not loading.

    I have the same problem. I seem to have been downgraded to a regular without my consent.

    (Just kidding, Poppy! Please don't kill me.)

    As for the WWG-it'd be nice to see recommendation that focused on practical help instead of ideological nose-in-the-air nonsense. Whatever reasons you believe lead to someone needing to apply for financial support, it seems inherently contradictory to demand that other people "take personal responsibility" for their situation. Personal responsibility is not something that can be enforced by an external agency-that's rather the point of the "personal" bit.

    (I won't even begin to go into the problems with the idea that people choose to be poor, which is what underlies this whole debate.)

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    I think this may be where my patented 'fuck those people, because they're assholes' approach really comes into its own.

    (The WWG, obviously. Not beneficiaries.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    250 jobs will now disappear from the Greymouth area. It will be of great comfort to the people of the region that they can count on the support and solidarity of their country should these jobs not be replaced inside of five years.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    From the Exec summary:

    “Long-term benefit dependency for the able-bodied is very destructive at every level: it destroys initiative and drive, cripples the future opportunities of children, encourages family breakdown, fuels intergenerational dependency and the growth of the underclass, and is an enormous cost burden on society that the country cannot afford.”

    (From) On-line submission on the Welfare Working Group Issues Paper

    So that just about sums it up does it? A paragraph of unsubstantiated destruction.

    The killer is it came from "an online submission". Unidentified, unreferenced, no context.

    Is that truly the best they could find to put in the Exec summary??

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1588 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Discovered overpayments of benefits amount to 50% of all payments!!!. Oh sorry, I got that wrong – it is 5%. Dang. No thats not right either. 0.5%. Ah thats better.

    That scared the shit out of you. But don’t worry. They suggest that:

    A coherent approach to tackling fraud abuse that includes all three options is a promising area to examine.

    Options are Public campaigns, Enforcement, Relationship fraud.

    It’s rampant folks!

    Edit: Page 119. And no, it does not amount to 36,200 X $10,000. Find the number of people who made up the 0.5% and then X $10k I think.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1588 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Relationship fraud

    Is that dobbing in people on the DPB for having overnight visitors? Because I thought we tried that in the 1990s. FFS, do we not pander enough to our whining minority of meanspirited little weasel busybodies already?

    (Yes, the rage, it continues unabated.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Danielle,

    our whining minority of meanspirited little weasel busybodies

    Wouldn't want the curtain-twitchers voting for Winston now, would we? Best dangle some bloody meat..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19685 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Page 48 How fascinating. The graphs and data for Sole Parents only mention Mothers....the male of the species must be Soul Parents Dudes then huh.

    Umm. When did it change from Hans Solo Parent to Fish type Parent??? I missed that one.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1588 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Page 54:

    There will be a range of circumstances in which women may fall pregnant while on a benefit. While a clear signal that this is not a desirable choice may be required, approaches to address this issue need to carefully consider the potential adverse impacts on children in these families.

    .... I wonder what the other circumstances are? I was sure there was only one way....

    Re getting bunned in the oven while on a benefit.........looks like there might be approaches but with consideration. Anyone got any guesses how that might be achieved? Anecdotes abound.

    And Danielle. Just for you on page 53:

    We have heard examples of people changing their living arrangements in response to financial penalties.

    and

    The Welfare Working Group understands that this is outside of their Terms of Reference. However, it is highly undesirable to have benefit support influencing family formation. The Welfare Working Group thinks that the Government needs to consider this in the future.

    Which might be good ...or bad.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1588 posts Report Reply

  • sally jones,

    Terrible Pike River tragedy. Be strong the South.

    Auckland • Since Sep 2010 • 179 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    a clear signal that this is not a desirable choice may be required

    I find that wording rather chilling.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Ian MacKay,

    It seems that the WWG Report is a copy of USA plans from 1990s.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Work_Opportunity_Act

    And the Wisconsin model http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_model

    How many millions were spent to get the copy of those reports? Thanks James and Brice.

    Bleheim • Since Nov 2006 • 498 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    No accident that the Minister has been on study leave in the home of the free

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19685 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    There is an active Alternative Welfare Working Group that has been holding meetings around NZ and compiling their own report.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3199 posts Report Reply

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