Posts by commie mutant traitor
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I must admit that my immediate thought was that it was an unjustified allusion to Guantanamo Bay.
Why unjustified? In both cases people were locked up for extended periods without charge (the firearms charges didn't justify denial of bail), and mostly turned out to be innocent (12 of the 17 never expressed any desire to commit terrorist acts, let alone planned them). Fortunately the NZ version only dragged out for a month rather than years, but that doesn't make it ok.
Then surely its their freaking fault that they wound up as the lead item on the news and not the big bad media's?
The 50's fault, not the 1450's fault. And the media still had the choice of how to portray the event.
if people decide to stockpile guns, train how to use them and muse about murdering people for practice it's the fault of the police for listening to them
Not at all; keeping an eye on them was perfectly sensible.
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I guess slowly and patiently explaining to them that dressing up as terrorists is not a great way to convince people you're not a terrorist is too obvious a place to start.
Not really an option once they'd already arrived in Wellington, and for anyone in a position to discuss it with them beforehand, what if they'd refused to listen and just insisted that nobody can tell them how to dress?
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It's pretty precious to blame the media for the coverage of the Hikoi - if you give them a choice between showing 1450 people marching peacefully and 50 jackasses dressed as terrorists
What would you suggest the 1450 should have done about the 50?
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We have no idea what other charges the solicitor general may have thought the evidence was sufficient for
But we do know that the police thought the evidence was insufficient to charge them for anything except terrorism, so it's highly unlikely that the solicitor general had a different opinion.
Some things being said about the Police are just vile.
Some things being done by the police are just vile.
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Obviously the first item on the agenda was: How To Deal With the Media. How did they deal with it? They didn't. Instead of giving a statement of position to the TV3 blokes, they close the curtains
How could they have given a statement of position to the media before they'd even had a chance to discuss the raids amongst themselves? It seems quite natural to me that they'd want a chance to talk freely about what had just happened without the national news media recording every word.
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Yup. It's not running military style training camps and talking about killing people that's the problem. It's failing to fill in the paperwork for your training camp.
As far as I'm aware, yes, that is essentially all they're actually being charged with. Military-style training isn't illegal, or paintball would be banned. And people can talk about whatever they like in private conversations, if they're not actually planning to do anything - and by the police's own admission, nothing had been planned. The raids took place on the basis of "we think these people might plan a crime at some point in the future".
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what this has done is probably start to stir a groundswell against so many of the causes that these 'activists' represent.
Which could well be part of what the police hoped to achieve.
No reasonable, sane person outside of these causes is going to support people or organisations that look to be linked to assassination attempts, bombing campaigns
"Look to be" being the key phrase. The disturbing quotes are apparently from just 5 of the arrrestees, and there's nothing to suggest that the other 12 would support such evil acts. Which didn't protect them from being locked up for a month without trial.
when are some groups going to start owning their own shit and say that if people are found guilty, they're beyond the pale?
Apart from anything else, nobody is being charged with terrorism, so being found guilty of it isn't very likely. And the firearms charges are simply charges of failure to comply with bureaucracy, which doesn't strike me as beyond the pale.
On the subject of informants, I think it's worth reminding people that activist groups associated with the raids uncovered infiltration by paid spies not that long ago, though it's not clear if the police had any involvement.
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When you're talking about 'killing white people for practice', stockpiling guns and honing your ability to ambush cars then you're the sort of person the police should keep a very close eye on
Sure, I have no problem with keeping an eye on them; very sensible. Armed raids and locking them up without trial for a month is another matter altogether, especially when only 5 at most of the 17 were making such threats.
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Hmmmm
The image you're linking to appears to be a launcher attached to a gun; the launcher on its own would look much less ominous.
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especially evidence of the stockpiling of weapons
What exactly did this stockpile consist of? How many unlicensed weapons were confiscated, and from how many different locations?