Posts by Craig Ranapia
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it's basic poltics to make statements made by oppenents look bad. if you want to call that lying fair enough.
Yes, Neil, I call lying by omission and/or distortion a lie and people who indulge in them liars. Though to be fair, Senator Clinton, her senior campaign staff and everyone connected with that advert may be outright morons.
I also find a wee bit disturbing the class of glib cynicism where we don't really expect any better from politicians aspiring for the top of the greasy pole because... well, that's just what they do. I can see the campaign season here at home is going to require some serious pain-killers.
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Or is there some other point that I am missing?
Yup, we're referring to a 1995 novel by Mark Lawson (__Idlewild, or, Everything is Subject to Change__) where John F. Kennedy survives the assassination attempt in Dallas, then wins a second term which ends with him (not Johnson) reviled for escalating the war in Vietnam. My point was that there's quite of fiction and non-fiction speculating on similar lines, so I don't think Lawson was the first one to modify that chant.
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By the way, the Clinton / Obama stoush is extremely tame (which is a good thing). I really think folks are getting worked up over statements that are simply attacking each other's statements. If you want dirty look back to 2000 and what Rove did to McCain or Kerry.
Funny, Don, I'd say running outright deceptive radio ads in South Carolina just long enough to get media traction was the anti-McCain Rove playbook to the letter. Why doesn't the Clinton campaign just come all the way out of the closet and put the man on the payroll?
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how so? Barak has indeed been comparing himself to Reagan (both are apparently Great Transformers)- it's one of the things Krugman has been crtical of him for. It's not a lie.
Oh come on... Here's the script for the ad:
VO: “Listen to Barack Obama last week talking about Republicans.
BO: “The Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10, 15 years.”
VO: “Really? Aren’t those the ideas that got us into the economic mess we’re in today? Ideas like special tax breaks for Wall Street. Running up a $9 trillion debt. Refusing to raise the minimum wage or deal with the housing crisis. Are those the ideas Barack Obama’s talking about?”
BO: “The Republicans were the party of ideas.”
VO: Hillary Clinton thinks this election is about replacing disastrous Republican ideas with new ones, like jumpstarting the economy. Putting an immediate freeze on foreclosures and mortgages. Cutting taxes for the middle class. and creating millions of new jobs. With the economy in crisis, we need a president with the ideas, the solutions that get our economy working for all of us. Hillary Clinton. Solutions for America.And here's the whole quote:
``I think it's fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10-15 years in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom.''
He also said in the same speech:
`I think we're in one of those times right now, where people feel like things as they are going aren't working. That we're bogged down in the same arguments that we've been having, and they're not useful. And the Republican approach, I think, has played itself out.''
You know something, Neil, I get a lot of shit from the usual suspects for giving the Liarbore Dykeocracy credit where credit is due, and even defending the Evil Demoness Hullun Klark against attacks I consider unfair.
Apparently that's totally out of line in Hillary Clinton's world. Fine, but I guess she's not going to be trumpeting her 'experience' working across party lines in the Senate, or her on the job training in an administration that 'ended welfare as we know it' etc.
Sorry, Neil, however you spin it the Clinton campaign got pinged for telling a big fat lie of ommission -- which may explain why the ad has been pulled. Now, tell me again why my comparison of the Clinton campaign to Rove-ism at its worse is unfair?
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Is Idlewild the book that has protesters besieging the White House chanting 'Hey Hey JFK How many kids did you kill today?'
Indeed -- though I don't think that's a Lawson invention. Though the convention of conspiracy nuts convinced that Teddy's drowning wasn't an accident, and his brother must have been involved somewhere. Oliver Stone is also shooting a controversial biopic called LBJ. :)
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And, personally, I think both the main parties are nudging into irresponsible territory on this.
Rob, I'd say you're erring on the side of generosity on this one. It looks like both major parties are going to be offering personal tax cuts, and I'm all for it. But I do hope you and your colleagues are going to ask -- and keep asking until you get a fudge-free answer -- some hard questions about the trade offs involved. Sorry, "it's not inflationary, and we can keep increasing government spending, because I say so and you're stupid" just don't cut it.
Personally I do get aggrieved at the way we're made to all feel personally responsible for inflation.
Up to a point, Kyle. But a reality-based discussion might finally be in order -- because I'm not sure duelling talking heads playing pass the ticking parcel is really much help either. 'The economy' is not some super-terrestrial abstraction we can step aside from when its convenient to do so.
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I stand by my points of course: Krugman - great economist, good columnist.
Fair enough, Terrence. I stand by mine, that Krugman is a lousy columnist, and it's not particularly relevant how many prizes he has on his CV.
Anyway, what do folks think of Cullen's op-ed in today's Herald? On the political tip, I'd have to give him credit for striking just about the right tone. But substantively, a sounds assessment of the prospects for New Zealand, Pollyanna making a party political broadcast or a bit of both?
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So do I. And in my experience of using the OIA, it generally does.
Fair enough. And I wasn't just blowing smoke above - thanks for the serious and civil dissent. Don't think you've changed my mind, but a contrary POV isn't a bad thing at all.
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Meanwhile, while we're on the subject of regurgitating undigested spin -
how about this?**Prime Minister takes issue with house-cost findings**
5:00AM Tuesday January 22, 2008
By Anne GibsonAn international survey that found New Zealand the least affordable country for house buyers was widely attacked yesterday and its findings questioned.
Prime Minister Helen Clark disputed conclusions from the fourth annual Demographia survey, which she said was as misleading.
She said the survey's sample of countries was too small and lacked enough European nations to have any real meaning.
OK, so the PM got to put up some unchallenged spin of her own. First, I hardly find it surprising that a politician facing an election this year is going to "take issue" with politically embarrasing news reports. But on what basis did Clark make the claim? Is it accurate, or valid, or pure political spin? Well, Anne Gibson might have asked the questions and gotten a satisfactory answer. But I'll be buggered if I can find them in the actual story.
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Last but not least, TVNZ has just managed the same treatment of the news release put out by Bill English on 'thestandard.org.nz'.
Really? Mike Williams seemed to get plenty of time for response and rebuttal. He didn't do a terribly good job (seriously, why is he allowed out in public without a choke chain?) but that's hardly TVNZ's fault.
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