Posts by Craig Ranapia
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Oh, and thanks for the thoughtful and reasonable response Hadyn. What I liked about Dame Barbara's attitude was, IMO, that she could make her point without turning the issue into another apocalyptic front in the culture wars. I think folks like her, and dare I say it the thoughtful and mututally respect discussion here, need to be heard more often - and the shrill likes of Brian The Bish and Richard Dawkins a lot less.
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As an atheist I too am becoming increasingly intolerant of prayer at meetings and conferences and other non-religious activities.
Jacqui - who needs to be an atheist to be in the amen corner on that one? I take my religion seriously enough to think there's a place and a time for everything, and you don't genuinely 'respect' anyone by treating prayer as a 'verbal floral tribute'. IMO, it is insulting to everyone involved.
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I'd suggest that their current non-religious style of atonement is infinitely more productive.
Joe: Is every day when Ireland isn't defaced by sectarian murder, torture and harassment a very good one indeed? Of course.
Then again it would have been 'infinitely more productive' if people like Adams and Paisley hadn't spent decades as apologists and enablers for mass murder.
But one photo op around a conference table should never efface or mitigate that. Sectarian bigots and their death squads certain should not be euphemised as "very unsavory elements."
And when you get right down to it, I'd rather be Buttons The Panto Dame than Alastair Campbell.
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It's like with Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley. They were both aligned with very unsavory elements but that doesn't mean that what they are doing now should be continually held to ransom because of their past.
Oh, fuck that Neil - that is a truly decadent and depraved bit of semantic whitewash. These men were not "aligned with very unsavory elements" - they were, and are, spokesmen and apologists for ogranisations that over decades murdered, tortured and intimidated thousands in acts of savage sectarian violence and outright terrorism. Held to ransom? Adams and Paisley should spend the rest of their lives on their knees, thanking God they're not being held in a cell awaiting their trials for crimes against humanity.
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Danyl;
Vulunteer being the operative word. I'm job hunting at the moment, and I don't see either subject coming up in interviews, and I certainly won't be volunteering or answering any questions along those line. Not that I think any prudent employer would ask.
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As far as the census goes, I'm still waiting for jack-booted Stats Nazis to kick my door down because I never have, and never will, answer any questions about my ethnicity (until they slip "mongrel" in there somewhere), and will continue not to answer any questions about my sexual orientation or religion. Just because I don't think there's any legitimate public interest in who I fuck or where I worship - and no, I don't think everything the public wants to know is a matter of public interest.
And, yes, shame on TV3 for the flat out misleading beat-up about the parliamentary prayer. Personally, I'd like to see it abolished enitrely because it's obviously not doing any good - but, as you said, there was a lot less to that story than the breathless tone implied.
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Bokononism for state religion!
Nah... if you're going for Vonnegut I'm more enchanted by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirens_of_Titan[|The Church of God The Utterly Indifferent]].
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Simon g:
Oh shit... I rather liked Dame Barbara Goodman's attitude to the whole prayer thing, when she was an Auckland City Councilor - which, if my memory serves, was that she didn't really think it was that big a deal, but as a Jew she wasn't going to participate either. Which sounds like an entirely sensible one, and dare I say it 'liberal' and 'tolerant' in the best sense.
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But if you happen to believe there is no god then the whole anthem becomes a bit much - and the Maori version of it even more so.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I get a little annoyed when someone feels the need to patronise folks at 'multicultral' gatherings by hideously mispronouncing a simple greeting in a dozen different languages without pausing for breath. OTOH, as far as plastic tiki tokenism goes, it's not really worth firing up the indignation gland for.
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The anthem was written in the 1870s when one could state that we were a Christian nation because the vast majority of us would have been. In fact I suspect one would have had to profess to a Christian faith to be admitted into normal society.
Hum... I think that's a whole other can of worms being opened. Perhaps Brian's whanau had a totally different experience, but mine was a bit show to action the 'you're in a Christian country now, niggaz - put on some pants and go to church'. I also think there's room to wonder just how 'Christian' 19th century England was, at least in the rather ill-defined sense Tamiki likes to throw around. Certainly, the political and social 'establishment' was at least nominally CofE, but the reality is a little more complex that folks who blather about 'Christian Nations' like to believe.
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