Posts by giovanni tiso
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I expect he's correct in saying that these are phrases the sex workers he has spoken to use themselves.
Goody, shall we start using the "n" word then? Really. But it's not even how offensive the blanket use of those terms is, it's that they were designed to reduce all sex workers to the sex workers that Ben knows.
Experience's a fine thing, but then there are the things you don't know. Emma is good at reminding us of that.
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rather than putting words in his mouth.
"What's inherently wrong with finding out your son is sucking cocks for a living?"... "Being denied to work in a whorehouse is something you'd probably get over"... I don't think it qualifies as me putting words in Ben's mouth to be completely honest. And I respect his experience just fine. It's not as if I have this image that every prostitute is Shirley McLaine and every pimp is Jack Lemmon, you know. I'd just like it if part of the picture didn't become all of the picture by virtue of shrewd wordplay.
(And I guess one difference between dentistry, banking and prostitution is that only one of those professions would be likely to be chosen by someone who was looking to support a P-habit. I am not sure what conclusion one draws from that, but it seems there is at least one fairly clear difference.)
Eh? I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Cocaine is a pretty upmarket drug. Would you say that practicing law is bad because some people use it to support their cocaine habit? I'm just confused now.
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Gio, I'm only aiming for a slightly more balanced view of this business than focusing entirely on the people who got something good out of it. There's a shitload of people who suffer majorly at the hands of it, and if you can't see that, you're not being honest. I wish it weren't that way, but it is.
Nobody has ever said this isn't the case. In fact I think you'll find I said the opposite. It still doesn't make prostitution "wrong" for everyone and in absolute terms. Nor does it allow you to say that it is wrong because it's the only prostitution there is, which is what you've repeatedly been trying to do here. That is patently, demonstrably untrue.
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I guess we live in different parts of our respective towns.
No, actually I lived next to the Alfa Romeo motor car factory, if you must know. In that area street prostitution at the moment is controlled by an Albanian crime ring I believe. But the point is that both of us only see what happens at street level. Prostitution happens in a lot of places that you don't see. (And it pays not to make too many assumptions about what you do see, I must say.)
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They just don't tally with what I see on a daily basis.
And what is it that you see on a daily basis? Do you clean windows or install phones at escort agencies? Do you work at an AIDS clinic, or do pro bono legal work for a prostitutes' union? Do tell.
I tell you what I used to see every day going to my primary school: a nice and very dressed up lady standing by the side of the road next to a sports car, who always seemed cheerful and always said hi. And yes, she was there at eight in the morning. I can't tell you how she felt about her job, or if it made her feel happier and more fulfilled than my mother or my father or my teachers at school. You just can't make those kinds of assumptions - and why would you?
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I suspect so.
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That's like saying that feeling stink about them working in a coal mine for peanuts is an unhealthy attitude to work. Or that being ashamed to have a mad gambler for offspring is an unhealthy attitude to gambling.
I know you're an intelligent person, so would you care to try to argue honestly? By equating obviously undesirable job situations with all forms of prostitution and using expressions like "whorehouse" and "sucking cock" to describe it, you're painting a very specific and narrow image of the profession. Is that how you'd characterise what Lisa Lewis does? I don't think so. Are Lisa Lewis' parents' proud of her success, or brag about it with their friends? I honestly don't know. I don't much care, it's not really what it's about, you're the one who introduced the idea that it can be a good profession only if society finds it so, whilst at the same time reducing it to your (and much of society's) extremely narrow view of it.
Emma has linked on this thread and in the past to the writings of sex workers whose experiences diverge greatly from the one you're trying to paint here. You could do the decent thing and acknowledge that they exist and that their experience is in fact valid. Or not, it's really up to you.
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Globalise labour, fine. I see no problem with introducing a law that says you need to pay the minimum wage of the country in which you're selling your products to the people in the country in which you're making your products, adjusted for the local cost of living. And provide the same union protections. Anything less says that it's okay to treat people inhumanely, because they're developing.
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Again: why? There can't possibly be a product that is okay to sell but not to buy, unless somehow you believe that wanting the product in itself is bad. It doesn't make any sense. There are people who for a variety of reasons can use and in fact enjoy the companionship (they haven't forgotten how to wank, you know.) There are people who are happy to provide it. What's the problem with either side of that equation?
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I must say I'm reaching perilous levels of discomfort about the tone of this conversation. Replace prostitute with gay, if you want to test your tolerance. How would you react if somebody said here, okay, you might be fine with your child being gay, but would you brag about it with your friends? Or, yes, it might be okay to have gay relations, but should people be required to?
Nobody is saying that being a prostitute is a profession that is for everyone, nor that there isn't a great deal of exploitation in that profession. No doubt there is a tiny minority of men and women for whom it would be desirable, and fewer still that could make it work for them. But society's unhealthy attitude to sex notwithstanding, that doesn't reflect badly on them.