Posts by Rich Lock
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Now we're getting down to it.
Mark, you said:
Democracy is not the worst form of government compared to Nazism and there are better
Then I called you on it, by saying:
Since you clearly think there are better forms of Government than that which we could for the sake of argument call 'Western Democratic', how about you provide some examples of governmental forms you think are better, or 'don't bother'.
To which you replied:
**You have conveniently placed all the many variations of democracy into one shoebox.** This self satisfied complacence is of what benefit? Basically do your own search. I'm not the one saying democracy is the best, you are. You Rich are saying democracy is best, and if I don't agree with you I can fuck off or I'm trolling. As if better is some all encompassing quantifiable concept. Better in what respect? human rights? economically? technologically? The health system? environmentally? Ask an answerable question and I'll answer it.
There was nothing in your post to indicate that you thought we should be separating out the various democratic sub-systems. It was therefore quite reasonable of me to 'place them all in one shoebox', and ask you to provide an alternative form of government.
But maybe you weren't putting them all in one shoebox?
Apparently not, since LegBreak said:
Isn’t that the detail of the [democratic] system, rather than its fundamental principle, that’s the issue then?
To which you replied:
True just a detail Legbreak, but my only objective is to cast reasonable doubt [on the] assertion that democracy is better than all other systems, not to prove that it isn't, all just details
So you are clearly talking about democracy as a whole , and not whether one form of democracy is better or worse than another.
You are clearly contrasting any democratic form of government with any other fundamentally different form of government.
So my question stands: what do you think is a better form of government? There's plenty to choose from. Military junta? Aristocracy? Theocracy? Oh, the choices we have!
Then you said:
When I hear 5 year plan I think of stadium planning, relaxing of internet restrictions and unprecedented economic growth.
Wow, those are all great things! I wonder which form of government can deliver all of those wonderful benefits? I wonder exactly which brutally repressive totalitarian state your were thinking of when you wrote that...?
So, you're trying to 'cast reasonable doubt on the assertion that any form of democracy is better than all other systems', and to do that, you're effectively saying that a new stadium, internet restrictons eased from 'totalitarian, to, uh, 'totalitarian lite', and economic growth are acceptable substitutes for freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of government, and all that democratic crap.
Seriously? That's your argument? A Communist Dictatorship is better than any form of Democracy? A new stadium outweighs my freedom to say whatever the fuck I like about the government, as loudly as I care to, to whoever I choose? Srsly?
My word, I can feel the resonable doubt creeping up my spine as I type.
Seriously. The choice of any form of democracy, or the Communist Chinese model? That's my choice?
And you wonder why I think you're trolling?
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[sigh]
Mikaere, please point me to that part of Churchill's quote where he said '**representative** democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others which have been tried from time to time'.
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Mark, I may or may not actually find the time to rip your argument into the shreds it deserves to be ripped into sometime soon, or I may just not bother because you clearly aren't getting it and I don't have the time to start from first principles.
I am in fact thinking you are steering dangerously close to Troll territory, what you said is so lame.
However....
You said:
Democracy is not the worst form of government compared to Nazism and there are better
Then you said:
either discuss the topic, provide some examples, give us context, or simply don't bother
Since you clearly think there are better forms of Government than that which we could for the sake of argument call 'Western Democratic', how about you provide some examples of governmental forms you think are better, or 'don't bother'.
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please stay in China, mark. It clearly suits you. And it suits me very well for you to be there and not here.
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I'm not suggesting we shouldn't discuss it, or that it can't be improved. Clearly there is room for improvement.
However, I tend to think of the democratic processes and institutions we sometimes take for granted as being houses of cards, painstakingly built up over hundreds of years. Removing or repositioning one of those cards could have a lot of unintended consequences, so think carefully before taking action.
That is all I am saying, and it is mostly in response to those who make sweeping statements about 'doing away' with the current jury system in certain circumstances.
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For anyone who thinks we should tinker or do away with the jury system, have a think about Churchill's famous quote:
""Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
Then have a think about the Blackstone ratio
Then tell us what you'd do different.
After Dalvanius Prime publicly slagged the Muldoon government's funding of indigenous arts while on a state-sponsored trip to the MIDEM music fair at Cannes in the early 80s, Piggy collared him at a public function, accusing him of biting the hand that feeds.
Why didn't Dalvinius just transform into his big truck vehicle form, and crush him?
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I'm surprised an inveterate pinko socialist like you even needs to ask.
How very dare you!
I have a spine, thankyou very much.
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People (including in this thread) make rather lame jokes about lawyers' ethics.
Well, I do work in the legal profession, albeit not as one of those fancy-speakin', high-falutin' big-city lawyer types, and as such I am bound by exactly the same ethical code as you.
So if I can't make lame-arse jokes at my own expense, who can I make them at?
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So this talk about expensive, or affordable (depending on your point of view), prisons, shipping containers and what not .... Isn't that just the noise the machine makes when it's warming up, just before the privatisation?
It is a rather lucrative business sector, after all. one of the few sectors that continue to experience growth ...The machine is making rather more explicit noises about privatisation.....
But....is this a good thing?
Lets ask Your Views!
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Hah, with Crusher Colins on board you can do both. Stick 'em in a container and send 'em round the world. When it comes back, hose it out, put in a brand new prisoner and ship it off again. Cheap as Chips.
You've just reminded me of an episode of 'The Shield' I saw once.
Corrupt cops stick two drug gang kingpins in a shipping container and tell them there's only room for one of them on their turf. They'll be back in the morning to let the survivor out.
Could be a winner. Wire up the containers with webcams and stick it on pay per view.