Posts by chris
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Polity: Meet the middle, in reply to Russell Brown,
Fair enough, as I said:
It’s not so much that I don’t appreciate the nature of the discussion itself
It’s just that I guess I’ve become accustomed to wanton misrepresentation in the form of snipes like this only ever (rarely) being part of the discussion - not the leading posts:
Some PA commenters were sure John Smith won UK Labour the 1997 election despite dying in 1994
With the Chinese buyers debate this started to become more commonplace, but in that instance Keith and Tze Ming Mok had a similar platform to respond on, now the cross hairs of leading posts seems to have shifted into the general readership. I don’t think simon g was off the mark or disingenuous at all in suggesting it was Smith who was pivotal in Labour’s breaking out of “the funk.”
But anyway…the funk.
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Polity: Meet the middle, in reply to BenWilson,
Otherwise it’s a discussion about which way we should steer our ship in a dense fog. Under those conditions, the only safe choice is to stop.
Or have a scratch around for that the moral compass. It’s not as if the ocean isn’t warm and beckoning, there’s nothing stopping anyone jumping off the gangplank to join that third of eligible voters playing water polo.
This think tank series or whatever this actually is, led by Rob who may or may not be affiliated with the Labour party and who possibly has a Labour/ centrist obsession, have dramatically reduced my faith in Labour. It’s not so much that I don’t appreciate the nature of the discussion itself, it’s that the initial posts always feel like we’re being pounded with propaganda, the targets are invariably people on the left, there’s next to no give or take, and if this is actually designed to inform policy in any way shape or form, I can’t see a gripping need for anyone closely affiliated with Labour to be producing a series like this out in the open.
If I were a National Party affiliate I’d be reading though these threads and the response in the Standard etc with glee. Instead I’m gutted. It’s not that I don’t understand the advantages of prostitution, I don’t see any need for a big series of announcements that this decades old direction is some marked shift in career choice for Labour, or the only option.
okay, I think I’ve edited most of the obvious errors out of this post, now I’m going to press save. Okay I pressed save, but I found a small error. OK. I'm saving again.
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Polity: Meet the middle, in reply to Russell Brown,
We do sometimes lose sight of the fact that Labour dragged the centre leftwards through being in government.
and also without being in Government. From the other thread, my pick of what Rob has written/amended/collaborated/compromised on thus far here was this:
Let’s start with your proposed purpose for Labour, which I think you’ve got half right. My changes are in CAPS, and basically delete “radical” and insert “lasting:”
The purpose of the Labour party is to be a vehicle of LASTING change, to stand for something that gives hope to the poor, the oppressed, and the exploited, and to fight with them to get elected, and when elected use that power to bloody well ram MEANINGFUL change down the throats of the neoliberals THAT THEY CAN’T EVER UNDO.
That struck me as an ideal platform to launch from. The next obvious step being Labour finding out what exactly gives hope to the poor, the oppressed, and the exploited, finding ways to express to people why they are poor, how they are oppressed and exploited, because not we’re not all capable of visualising an alternative or understanding the reasons for our predicaments. Then finally; offering resonant meaningful informed solutions in order to fight alongside the marginalised to get elected.
With that in mind, this thread strikes me as something of a regression in terms of humanity. I do appreciate that in the bigger picture we are all numbers, and I admire the geekery and appreciate the enthusiasts’ contributions a great deal, but the cerebral can only take us so far if we’re discussing meaningful change for a culture over a number of terms. Numbers don’t translate to hope, and hope for the marginalised will never be as bankable a currency as ‘hope for the many especially the marginalised’.
Labour’s policies in the last election weren’t all that bad, but the benefits, their necessity, weren’t – as Rob said – given due “emphasis”. That was a performance issue. We know the game, two years from now there will be two or three live televised debates in our living rooms, these more than anything unforeseen in the interim, offer the greatest opportunity to wrest power from the incumbents.
It’s not a matter of just turning up, it’s not a matter of just being yourself. It’s about winning, through delivery, deportment, language and projection. It’s a performance, nothing less. Comparatively speaking nothing else matters. No one else gets the opportunity, and thinking you’re ready, having the numbers, being familiar with your lines, knowing what policies speak to middle New Zealand will never be enough.
In the lead up, but especially on those dates Mr Little (or whoever, it's been hard keeping up) must be the Prime Minister, everything must be anticipated and rehearsed, scenarios, questions, responses, interjections, clarifications, mannerisms, one liners, two liners, all policy, everyone's policies and especially misunderstandings and misinterpretations. I’m not going to vote positive, I’m not going to vote #forabetterNewZealand when I want ‘the best’ for my family and and our community, I want tangible hope at a gut level, and I don’t want to have to think too much, or be hard pressed to understand anything. I don’t care about your brand, I have no loyalty and I want an obvious departure. I want to be offered a clear choice by a cool head.
KISS
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Polity: Meet the middle, in reply to BenWilson,
It’s pretty odd to see the Maori party visualised that far right of Labour given respective positions on recent real world issues such as the Foreign fighters bill.
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Polity: Meet the middle, in reply to Rob Salmond,
While centrists often do not have strongly held ideological views, they do have beliefs and values. They don’t wake up each morning waiting for ideologues to fill their empty heads with things to think.
But aren’t you an idealogue here to fill empty heads with things to think? Who’s watching the news these days? Are beliefs and values immutable? Aren’t Duncan Garner, Mike Hosking et al in part employed for their persuasiveness? Do their opinions inform peoples’ values and beliefs? Do their opinions inform peoples’ thinking? Wasn’t Labour’s 2014 shellacking in part attributable to its failure to harness a runaway media that was encouraging people to think along certain lines? Did Labour capture thought streams in order to redirect them to a less hostile narrative? How was the framing effect capitalised on by the victors?
Two campaigning advocates of centrism, one who is on the pulse and therefore attuned to just how open the middle’s minds are and the attractiveness of persuasive rhetoric, the other who attempts to minimise the open mindedness of the middle and to campaign along the lines of the road already traveled by others .
Labour needs proper social democratic policy in order to stay Labour. Instead it’s about – for want of a better word – “narrative.” And issue emphasis.
Labour needs a salesperson.
if Labour had convinced the population that the most important problem facing New Zealand was lack of public investment, the left could have won.
If Labour had convinced the general population of anything they might have come close. Largely irrelevant speculation. Capture imagination - possibly requires some.
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Hard News: The Sky Trench, in reply to Russell Brown,
Probably not what you’d want to hear but as an acrophobic those walls would mean the difference for me between riding and getting off and walking the bike.
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Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR)
The correct terminology for full or permanent residency is indefinite leave to remain (ILR). You can apply for ILR in several ways depending upon your UK immigration status.
ILR allows you to remain in the UK for an indefinite period, on condition you intend to remain present and settled here. If you leave the country for a continuous period of 2 years or more, it is usually deemed by the authorities that you are no longer present and settled, and you may have your ILR revoked.
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Polity: Saudi sheep: Misappropriating…, in reply to Rich of Observationz,
As much as I appreciate a joke at the expense of Australia…
The permanent residence system is important for migrants from countries like the Netherlands and India, who aren’t allowed dual nationality by their birth country.
I’m not implying that we remove the Permanent residence system, I’m suggesting that like passports and driver’s licences, it wouldn’t be such a bad thing to rejig the system so that permanent residents are required to either be a resident (as the name suggests) here and set an expiry system requiring them to pay to renew these rights if they wish to return having not lived or paid tax here for a significant period.
For example If there is ever any clampdown on foreign property speculation as Labour have proposed, it will be severely blunted if we find that many of these “offshore investors” are in fact “permanent residents”. This is not about turning people away, it’s about keeping them here. It’s not about Australia or Canada or India or China, I haven’t yet found another developed country that offers permanent residency in perpetuity, conferring all those rights, with no requirement for the visa holder to ever return to the country once they’ve exited. Until these rights or this system is reciprocated, I don’t think it would be too terrible to consider dragging ourselves down to the level of planet earth.
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Polity: In defence of the centre, in reply to Steve Barnes,
Nice analogy =)
This has to be taken in context.
Labour inherited an almost bankrupt treasury after the “think big”I’ve heard that trotted out as justification for the throwing out of the baby with the bathwater all too often by the monocular, but I’ve usually heard it as a conclusion rather than an introduction, so I’m glad you continued.
Think Big Projects (from Wikipedia):
– methanol plant at Waitara
( Boom times are back for Taranaki’s multi-million dollar methanol industry, with production set to reach record levels.)
(Methanex New Zealand has restarted its Waitara Valley methanol plant, which had lain idle since 2005 when it was shut down because of a lack of natural gas.
ammonia/urea plant at Kapuni (After a year long feasibility study, the New Zealand agri-business is looking at the possibility of building a new ammonia-urea plant to replace their Think Big-era facility in Kapuni, South Taranaki.)Three international companies have been shortlisted to tender for the job and will submit their proposals and costings by the end of 2015, Ballance chief executive Mark Wynne said. )
– synthetic-petrol plant at Motunui
(At the time of its conception, in the early 1980s, world oil prices were very high. Unfortunately, by the time it began producing in 1987, the prices were dropping, making it redundant. Instead of full production of synthetic petrol, the plant switched to making more methanol. It produced its last synthetic petrol in 1997)
– expansion of the Marsden Point Oil Refinery
(The refinery uses a medium-sour blend of crude oil, nearly all of which is imported. Most crude oil produced in New Zealand is light-sweet and is exported to refineries in Australia. Marsden Point produces 70 per cent of New Zealand’s refined oil needs, with the rest being imported from Singapore, Australia and South Korea. The Refinery assets were transferred by the Government to the New Zealand Refining Company Limited, a consortium of the five major petrol retailers)
– expansion of the New Zealand Steel plant at Glenbrook
(Over 90% of New Zealand’s steel requirements are produced at Glenbrook while the remaining volume is produced by Pacific Steel, a steel recycling facility in Otahuhu, Auckland.)
– electrification of the North Island Main Trunk Railway between Te Rapa and Palmerston North
(electrification~)
– a third reduction line at the Tiwai Point aluminium smelter, near Bluff
the Clyde Dam on the Clutha River.(The Tiwai Point Aluminium Smelter is owned by New Zealand’s Aluminium Smelter, which in turn is owned by Rio Tinto Aluminium (RTA) (79.36%) and the Sumitomo Chemical Company (20.64%)
I’ve always wondered by what percentage our national debt would differ from its current $100b if we’d instead retained all the assets sold by both Governments. It's kind of getting to be part of the furniture now. Given the justification for our fire sale often boils down to little more than - the cost of building these much maligned projects listed above? Just because we hadn’t right then found a worthy chauffeur or encountered favourable driving conditions, didn’t mean we’d not built a decent motor vehicle. I always assumed that the key word in the title of this economic strategy was ‘think’.
Thanks for your very necessary additions to this chapter Steve.
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Polity: In defence of the centre, in reply to Joe Wylie,
Thanks Joe, wrt to that cartoon, I'd probably insert Sir Rogernomic's shoulders beneath John Key's feet, but still atop that mountain of cash.