Posts by robbery
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music in Tarnation
apparently mr $218's use of music is not quite as incidental as he might have us believe. a thread from people who specifically noticed and enjoyed the music in the film. I'd call that adding value to his product. mostly alternative and indie stuff too. -
sorry kyle, not meaning to dump you in it,
i've already admitted a liking for pre screening copies of dexter which I justify to myself that it will be on free t anyway so all I'm doing is time shifting (although I know its not that simple), and I'm sure someone owns the rights to the hockey.
I'm not criticizing (which would be hypocritical anyway), just noting how it is. Is this stuff screened in nz anyway? -
sorry, typos
"I'd like to see that $218 movie and see just how intergral the music is to it.
And while I'm at it I'll question the $218 price tag. did he buy his home editing unit for that price?"
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Using Rob as an example in this case,
jon, I have to say I'm disappointing in you. With your off the wall angles and wildly variant interpretations of what is on topic,..... and here you are picking the bleeding obvious, I just expected more from you in your choice of an example of badly behaved,
so in the interests of fairness and balance perhaps you'd care to critique the behaviour of sacha and mark, sacha for his condescending attitude and thisand mark for his ........ well you could take your pick but mark's a big boy and can look after himself, but if you had to pick something you could have a go at not listening to the voice of knowledge and experience.
in many cases is bringing a great deal of value to the discussion
make up you mind,
if he'd let go of the ISP responsibility angle
I made a small mention of it in direct relation to a comment and you bought it up yourself up page. make up your mind. you want it in or out of the convo. its completely relevant to the issue of change in copyright. it may well have a serious impact on how people view free-for-all downloading. I know I'd stop grabbing the next installment of dexter if I got a stop it or we'll cut you off letter.
as kyle mentioned there's shit happening right now to stop peer to peer. your mate at xtra is underplaying easy, already existing examples of traffic shaping (how to stop you doing the things you want to which may involved downloading a movie or tv episode. 700 meg eh kyle, that's suspiciously the same size as a movie file) peer to peer filtering closes the gate on big stuff but it's unlikely to filter out music copying though, but those who do it will probably get caught in the same net that filters out movie traffic)representing his ideas as perhaps representative of those of the music industry
no no no no no no no no no no no.
I spent my whole life distancing myself from those people and I can prove it. I am not coming from an industry perspective in the alleged "fat cat money grabbing balls of evil" way you portray them as.I'm aware of their position as is simon, but you really do have to take heed of what simon said about people not getting the depth and variety of components involved in media, creation, distribution etc. The thing is if someone like me can see things like this (and I'm pretty far to the left as far as "airy fairy be kind to your aunty" type people) then how far left do you think it is realistic and viable to sit in this discussion.
valuable counterpoint to the ‘society view’ that some of us non-creatives/non music industry have.
That's a big one of my points. I don't see sacha, mark, matthew or lessig as pushing a society view. I get the vibe from some that it's a self serving motive rather than the betterment of society that some comments come from. (note I said some not all, exclude yourselves if you wish)
I've said it a few times, I'm all for a sharing caring society so long as it applies across the board. What seems to be an underlying theme in these threads is class structuring. Creatives and their needs are not a central part of the equation here, they're more an incovinence.
Our society is definitely not acting in the interests of creators with the media free for all going on at the moment. We're having too much fun to consider its effects. Given that why would you think society is going to act favorable without a serious fight.Presently we do not live in a fully caring sharing world. Tell me I'm wrong. NZ is better than most (or it was) but we've got a long way to go before we reach full socialism which is what the free media part of the picture is aiming for without insisting that everyone else come along for the ride.
My understanding of society is we look after everyone equally. I'm seeing tokenism in the concessions made to creators. 'we'll throw them a few crumbs but they can't have control. Some dj wants to sample their work without credit or recompense and we can't have the dj's right infringed on'. It just doesn't add up, yet.
comments like these show naivetyWhen he spoke of commercial remixing, he illustrated the point by referring to the granting of movie rights for a new Grisham novel: it is undesirable for just anyone to make a big-budget movie based on someone's novel.
Undesirable? so in the new free world of media who's going to police that. shall we have self monitoring? that didn't work so well for music and copyright did it.
shall we have quality police? "your movie sucks, we're going to confiscate it".
here's an idea, how bout we have a system where by the author maintains the rights to their creation and they get to decide who understands their vision enough to be granted 'rights' to make a movie of said work. I think we'll call that process "grants" rights, no wait, not that, ... thinking of a word that means to duplicate someone's work. copyright? hmm could work.copyright is changing, simon says it, I'm observing it. Don't be mislead to think that I do or don't support the direction things are going, I'm just observing that there are things that can happen which don't involve all of us putting daisies in our hair.
I'd like to see copyright change to longer control of artist content.
I'd like to see the stupid extremes rights holders have backed off. so what if a track is on a tv in the background. leave it alone. but if the music is a full an integral part of a piece pay it forward. I'd like to see that $218 movie and see just hope intergral the music is to it.And while I'm at it I'll question the $218 price tag. did she buy her home editing unit for that price? tapes, time, masters. If you know anything about movie production costs you know that figure is manipulated, and if you're going to manipulate that for the uninitiated then what else are you conveniently leaving out to put your point across? call me skeptical,....
It's marginally possible that his total cash outlay was that but that is not the cost of a project. If you're not going to factor in labour, equipment used and sundry production costs (transport, consultations, favours and materials) then you're misrepresenting the cost and effort it takes to make these things, which was most likely intentionally for promotional purposes. great way to sell a movie, I made it for a fraction of the cost of hollywood, yay, but you didn't pay labour.more a bored, smooth talking lawyer with no greater task he can apply himself to
well I got the bored bit right, he's moving on if you can believe wiki or a lawyers word.
now jon, if you'd like to pop up on the couch and we can perhaps have a little chat about your urge to come in late to a discussion and assume a moderator position. Very controlling of you.
Were there any issues of abandonment in your past? A dominant older brother? perhaps we should talk about your relationship with your mother, I've heard that can be an important factor in these kind of behavior patterns.
bombs away -
to Vuxe, which had encoding. Since then it's jumped back up and I'm happily torrentting again.
all depends which isp you're using kyle.
xnet (naked dsl) completely filters out all peer to peer, even with vuse encoding and as much fiddling as you can come up with. I've heard on no way around that. They've absolutely killed it dead.likewise slingshot had a crippling peer to peer policy I couldn't get around a couple of years back but maybe vuse and encoding bypasses it. don't know, i'll never go back to them, their customer service was appalling.
xtra shapes traffic but doesn't cut it off completely, just chomps it back a bit. you could pull down 60 gig running full time over the course of a month if you were lucky.
judging from xnet and traffic totals I wouldn't count on being invincible.
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So here's the challenge, Simon: Show some evidence that this has occurred, and I mean solid evidence that the industry has directly suffered from file-sharing, that labels have gone out of business because of file-sharing, that bands have gone out of business - let's see some names, dates and figures, not anecdotes that your daughter doesn't think it's wrong.
dude, I accept that its highly likely you don't get out much but you only have to read comments publically made on this site to back up what simon noted in his daughter and her peers behavior and attitude to media.
lots of people have explained their feelings on their right to download for free. why are you even wasting time questioning it, surely your time would be better spent on questioning the moon landing since you personally have no proof it happened.I have no doubt that she thinks that way, but you seem to be working from the base idea that she is wrong. What if she is right and you are wrong? Is that a possibility you can entertain?
what are you talking about, he's not arguing with his daughter and her peers, he's observing actions and attitude. he's not saying its right or wrong, he's merely relating what he's seeing.
the fact of the matter is that under current law she is wrong, but it is un enforced and its not the point in raising the observation, simon was merely stating the bleeding obvious and backing it up with personal example, media isn't being purchased by the next generation cos they don't have to. if they're not buying it, who is and who will? Think that one through and get back with your research. -
I merely stopped responding to you or robbery as neither of you were prepared to accept that alternative viewpoints may be valid.
I love this shit you write man, it's high entertainment shit, you should put a © on it cos I'm definitely deriving amusement levels off it and should be paying for the pleasure.
you stopped responding to me cos I kept reminding you of you classic (and I mean of the decade type classic) foot in your mouth comment re islander, and you stopped responding to simon cos he kept handing you your ass on a plate through superior knowledge which he could back up with fact. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion but its a joy to behold smug pushiness cut down with calm clear reasoning, knowledge and experience.
its interesting that you've tried to call out a booker prize winner, an acknowledged expert on music industry with some 30 years of experience in the field who just happens to have a near encyclopedic obsessive interest in the exact field you're questioning him on, and an obnoxious loud mouth indie bleeder who you seem to think represents the old school industry but who has made it a point to work as far out side of the industry as he can for a good 25 years.
how far are you going to have to look for someone who fits your views? you're telling us how it is without any real experience in how it is, I love it!!!
back up your arguments with your personal experience. tell us who you are and why we should rate your opinions, same goes for sacha.I'm enjoying your attempts but your words ring hollow without anything to back them up.
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As for your "customer" comment, pretty much tells me why you're worried about going out of business.
hahaha, you so know nothing about what I do, or I venture what motivates most artists. why should we take anything you say seriously when you appear to have no knowledge of a large part of the argument and the people involved. how can you suggest any solution if you don't understand both sides of the argument.
nice try though, I like your argument style,
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Whilst approaching copyright, should we not be tackling the issue of 'intellectual property' as a whole- particularly as it relates to biotechnology and pharmaceuticals given the real-world impact which intellectual property rules have on public health?
I think that's more patent than copyright, but an interesting area that's well out side my field of experience as it would be to many here, but that probably won't stop em telling us how it should be done :)
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These "infringers" are your potential customers, Rob.
well firstly not my customers, my customers are all music nerds intent on supporting the music they love, I talk to them directly and they insist on paying even when I tell them I'll burn them a copy,
and secondly, I suppose 'infingers' are potential music customers in the same way shoplifters are potential shoppers. When you put it like that it does make it seem a whole lot better.