Posts by robbery
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a article on the futility of flogging music
excerpt
People can download virtually any music for free these days, arguing that it’s OK, bands can make money by touring, instead. Which is like casually suggesting to the owner of an off license, after he’s spotted you nicking a bottle of wine, that he can sell a few crisps to make up for it. And anyway, The Rolling Stones might well gross millions on a world tour, but nearly all bands lose money hand over fist while on the road.
People might come out with stats about live music revenues being on a gradual incline, but believe me – having been in bands known and unknown, and done tour budgets for countless others – touring represents a black hole of disappearing cash for musicians. Sound engineers might get paid, promoters ensure that they get their cut, but precious little filters down to the musicians, unless they’re lucky enough to get tour support from the record company. Which is actually an advance. Which means that, er, it’s their money in the first place.
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but it's hardly a name to conjure with
but it is accurate,or more to the point not misleading, if that counts for anything.
I personally like the sound of the Loxene Golden Disc Awards,
vodafone gold disc awards?
Vodafone silver disc awards
Vodafone 5 meg data file awards?
vodafone golden download awards?got to be something in there somewhere they can use
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To what earthly end, though?
I'll take that as a yes please.
the earthly end being an awards system that focuses on acknowledging greatness across all artists. is that really so offensive to you? its a simple, basic concept. if you're not doing that then don't use the term new zealand like you represent everyone, it obviously doesn't.
it should be the rianz music awards.and I think you misunderstand the current independent movement, the whole point is to not be part of a club, that's the independent part of it. that shouldn't exclude you from recognition by your country for excellence in your artform.
Yes, it probably is.
are you saying the best compliment is the one you give yourself? you're easily pleased :)
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That's a ridiculous statement. It's the way that all industry awards of any kind operate. And if it wasn't that way, I'm sure you'd complain about that too.
That statement my statement is ridiculous is in fact ridiculous.
b nets? nominated by stations, artists are not part of that process? ring a bell?
you may like the 'blowing your own trumpet' thing and that's totally up to you, but for me, me saying how great I am doesn't quite have as much meaning to me as someone else saying unsolicited that I done good. maybe that's just me,you looking for a scrap russell? wanna take your angst over software battles out on line, I'm up for one, pick a topic, I'll say the opposite of everything you say, ;)
Here's an idea: how about you do it yourself?
you younguns, always wanting to tear down the old and build it new,
what's wrong with acknowledging faults and fixing the current system?
I tell you if I do it you won't be coming along for a free piss up at my expense, and I don't think that's something you want. -
If that's standard now it's jumped 100% since the last time I manufactured in NZ in 2004.
$1750 is one of the best deals going for 500 at the moment. price goes down the more you press as you know but print runs have dropped hugely since the good old days too. 150 is a common number to sell at gigs for many bands and 500 to 1000 takes some really hard work to palm off.
majors get access to better rates, of course, but if you're indie, $1750 is what you'll pay and that's come down quite a bit in recent years.
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Maybe the lower level musician could add 10c per head to their door price to cover it...lets face it if they can't pull enough punters over a year to cover that then they may be too lower level to seriously take part
so now you're judging greatness on income? you have to be of a certain level of income to be in on these babies?
Every musician I ever met was skint, unless they had a good day job, and if they did have a good day job they sooner or later had to consider the wiseness of continuing with the black hole of a hobby or settle down and do something constructive with their life like concentrate on their day job, paying off the mortgage and building a family.When was the last time you met a musician who didn't bitch about $10 they didn't get from the last gig.
every single gig I see going on these days covers costs if its lucky, no one is making profit, they pay for their travel, accom, crew, promotion, and thats it. its very very different from the good old days.
I really don't see a difference between the validity of some completely independent artist and one that has a company punting for it as far as recognition for excellence is concerned, but as we have both acknowledged these awards are all about pr so what are we disagreeing about?
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I know I'm going to regret asking this but what club do you speak of, Robbery?
of course you are jackie but try reading it with a warm caring and informative voice, kinda like a kindly school teacher, and understand that i'm just interested in the facts of this, not some disgruntled award seeker or upset that my fav band didn't get in. I don't really rate awards and band battles in my music. art isn't a competition is it, but if they're going to make it one then it should be transparent presented as such and understood as such.
ok here we go, remember, kindly school teacher......... (wobbly screen special effect)
vodafone nz music awards is the music awards for RIANZ - the recording industry association of nz, a group of major labels and some indie labels that pay a membership fee to look after specifically the interests of the members. One of those interests is to promote the artists on the members labels through such pr exercises as the music awards which gains quite sizable media coverage and respect (and sales/increased piracy of) their artists.
To view it as a national (New Zealand) recognition of artistic merit in a specific field or genre is inherently flawed as
1) all of New Zealand is not included in the eligible for award recognition list (only those artists that are represented by labels that are member or those willing to pay the registration fee (essentially the same as membership with out the other fringe benefits)
2) artists and their labels nominate themselves for award recognition. That 'feels' weird man, just wrong. its someone elses job to say you're good, not yoursThere are a very small group of musicians in NZ making a living exclusively from their music
I don't know of hardly any. all of em have other income or live on an income below minimum wage.
its not about income or money, its about inclusion, and the current vodafone awards are flawed because they function on exclusion, ie how can it be the nz music awards if it is only members and payers that can participate.
its not the members of rianz that vote, its the members of rianz that are eligible on for awards, exclusively unless you pay a fee.
I didn't say there was an old boys network which infers fat cat rich dudes smoking cigars and spilling red wine on white shagpile carpet( that last bit might have happened) and there is no conspiracy going on here, it just pays to know the structure of what is said to be an NZ awards system which is actually a portion of the nz music system, not inclusive of a large section of it, ie completely independent artists and labels.as simon said its a good pr exercise, there's nothing to be bitter about in that, its just that we should acknowledge that.
My point was I'd love to see recognition go across the board.
There are many many bands and artists that are not part of the system as it is, most of em on the cutting edge of their art. The a low hum scene is a good example of this, but there are plenty more.as far as these awards go great art doesn't get recognised till its part of the official commercial system (club in this case cos there's membership fees) and in nz's case that excludes a lot of our better achievers because they won't be part of that system for a long time, often after their peak.
and I'm not arguing with the music establishment, I'm merely illuminating what the actual structure of these awards are. They don't hide the facts, its all on their website, but they don't promote them either, cos that would devalue the promotion benefits of the awards, and good for them for figuring ways to get people to pay attention to their material.
Just because your favourite musicians' aren't up for awards doesn't mean that the finalists are not there on their own merit. That's a bit unfair.
They nominate themselves. by that criteria their merit hasn't come into it yet. and then they compete against other people from a restricted pool that also nominated themselves.
its nothing to do with my favourite musicians, its to do with the structure of the awards and how they're viewed.
(wobbly screen effect), and you're back, wiser and more bored cos I took some of the fun out of the occasion. too bad you can't get on the guest list and drink yourself stupid on someones pr account. that's where the real action is.
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It would also have no one to fund it or organise it.
well they're doing quite a bit of sponsorship (vodafone, nokia, steinlager, warehouse, etc) so that sorts a bit of the dosh,
I would think a national music awards could and should be organized, supported and funded by a govt arts body, but then there probably wouldn't be stories of white shag pile and red wine to be told,
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I'd imagine the twelve CDs probably cost more than the $100.
wholesale wise they're worth about $200 if they were sold instead of contributed to the cause of getting award recognition but its about $3.50 per disc cost to manufacture
including entry fee its not nothing to a lower level indie musician. -
quickly found out who some of the other judges are and they tend to be fairly well chosen.
which would add legitimacy to the whole package, but its more the selection and entry process I find amusing.