Posts by talkie_toaster
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Polity: House-buying patterns in Auckland, in reply to Sue,
Don't worry. Since you are the second person to call me a "troll" without any attempt to discuss or address my points, and one of the many people who've revealed that you're not really statistically literate, I'll definitely fade away. There's really no point. You got me: I give up. Clearly, this is not a blog that welcomes new ideas or discussion points. This is clear.
So, you can all go back to your heartfelt discussions of identity politics and how any analysis that uses race is racist and feel self-satisfied and smug and happy in the knowledge that even while the Labour party is losing over and over again, at least you're losing in a way that can't possibly be construed as racist. In other words, you'll continue to do the National Party's job for them. by uncritically accepting their framing of events, and not even backing your own goddamn ministers when they use entirely uncontroversial statistical techniques to make entirely uncontroversial statements that everybody here secretly agrees are actually true (Chinese money is flooding the Auckland property market).
It's a shame though, because this country is genuinely going to crap while you're engaged with your self-satisfied navel-gazing and I'd really like a genuine opposition that actually talks about things that non-political non-academic normal kiwis give a shit about and does so in an unapologetic manner.
Not particularly confident that this will happen, so I guess I'll go back to the Greens, who at least know what they stand for. G'night!
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Polity: House-buying patterns in Auckland, in reply to Stephen Judd,
You’ve confronted people, and been answered accordingly.
Well, I've confronted people who I thought were wrong and been answered by some people who disagreed and some people who took the time to explicitly endorse my point of view, so yeah, it's an opinion forum and I posted my opinion.
you’ve explicitly framed it in a racist way
How?
yes it is very hard to talk about “floods of Chinese money” in a non-racist way
I really don't think it is. Chinese money comes from China. China is a country.. one with 56 different ethnic groups according to Wikipedia.
It's really hard to talk about it in a way that's impossible for determined people to interpret as racist. Because people are very elastic in their interpretations, they put words in people's mouths, they construct straw men, they do all the debating tricks we're all aware of. I can't control that. Like I said, the alternative is to not talk about it at all.
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Polity: House-buying patterns in Auckland, in reply to nzlemming,
Then you can kindly fuck off, instead of helicoptering in your bullshit
Deep. Thanks for your productive post.
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I honestly don’t know any way in which people can talk about Chinese money flooding Auckland that can’t be misinterpreted or abused in some way by racist idiots.
I really don’t. Open to suggestions.
So, the alternative is: Don’t talk about it at all. For me, not an alternative.
For me, the discussion should be not a circular firing squad, but a genuine discussion about how best to discuss this issue in a way that is least able to be abused by asshats.
(edit) Stephen: agree that it's a legitimate concern. "Legitimately concerned about" is not the same as "responsible for".
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Polity: House-buying patterns in Auckland, in reply to tim kong,
But the thing is, I also get that this weekend, as per Phil Twyford’s definition, I am not of this place.
Your interpretation of what Phil Twyford said… despite Phil Twyford explicitly rejecting this interpretation.
I am it seems, part of the problem, part of what plagues this country, and part of what needs to be addressed, and possibly fixed.
Your interpretation of what Phil Twyford said… despite Phil Twyford explicitly rejecting this interpretation.
And they have been called out on the basis of their last name.
Your interpretation of what Phil Twyford said… despite Phil Twyford explicitly rejecting this interpretation.
Your post is obviously very heartfelt and you are genuinely hurt. This sucks. I’m human and I feel for you. But, part of me says.. so what? Because your hurt feelings are based on you interpreting this analysis in a way that both PT and the analyst explicitly and repeatedly reject.
Phil Twyford and the analyst do not control and are not responsible for racist idiots deliberately misinterpreting this data to suit their own agenda. The data just is: it’s morally neutral. Facts just are. Reality just is. Isn’t this the reality-based community?
However, if you want to have a discussion about how to push back against the racist idiots abusing this data, that would be productive.
Edit: please understand that I'm not calling you a racist idiot, I'm acknowledging your point that racist idiots can and will abuse this analysis.
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Polity: House-buying patterns in Auckland, in reply to Danielle,
Well, is Swan a person? I don't know much about their posting history. Why would I? I'm new here.
"NO ONE is saying that collecting demographic data about this issue is a Bad Thing, per se."
You’re grasping at straws with Lilith’s quote: it doesn’t say that demographic data collection is bad, just that THIS is bad.
But, it's subjective, so fair enough.
If you honestly think this analysis is "the same old yellow peril shit", really. Do I need to provide examples of the things that were actually said and done in the "yellow peril" era? Do you actually seriously think this is (your words) "the same"?
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Polity: House-buying patterns in Auckland, in reply to Danielle,
1. NO ONE is saying that there is not a problem with overseas non-resident investment/speculation in the local property market.
Swan, post in this blog: "If Labour are correct in their analysis, then this shows two things. One we are recieving foreign direct investment in an area where we have a shortage of investment – housing. That’s pretty much an entirely good news story."
2. NO ONE is saying that collecting demographic data about this issue is a Bad Thing, per se.
Lilith, post in this blog. "To me, this methodology is classic Garbage In-Garbage Out. So many unsupported assumptions in data collection cannot lead to a meaningful conclusion. And it’s racist, to boot."
However I take your other points, that you think this is a bad strategy. Which is an opinion. Time will tell if you are correct, but if the results of Herald polls and the comments in Stuff are any guide, it might actually be a total winner. It's partially a total winner because racist asshats are piling in, this is true. This comes back to the whole "racists like this, so it must be racist" idea. Well, no. Labour is not responsible for other people and their racism and racist interpretations. But it's partly a winner because he's really the only person addressing the elephant in the room, using imperfect tools to be sure, but what's the alternative? Sit back and watch the home ownership dreams of a generation slip away, because you're afraid of mean people from the National Party calling you names?
I think that Phil T could have done a better job making this not about Kiwis who happen to be of chinese ethnicity, but given the quality of the media in NZ, I suspect he probably did, but it wasn't reported or highlighted.
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Polity: House-buying patterns in Auckland, in reply to Marc C,
Agreed.
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Polity: House-buying patterns in Auckland, in reply to Sacha,
You’re condescending, with your “Do read this post” and “your poor little head”. I guess when you’ve been busted directly contradicting yourself, it’s really all you have left.
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Polity: House-buying patterns in Auckland, in reply to simon g,
Well, we’re going round in circles here, but speaking only for myself, I resent the suggestion that I am dancing like a gullible puppet to a National tune.
Oh well, if you resent it, then it must not be true.
Anyway got to go. I didn't really want to kick a hornet's nest here. No hard feelings on my part.