Cracker: "It says 'Let's b friends', and it's got a b on it"
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(no women!?)
As an early riser (not necessarily by choice), I've been listening to Jennifer, the DJ who is on before/fills in for Mr Havoc before he arrives.
She's rather good, in my opinion.
I don't think Matt will do BOTY in the morning. I don't think Chris is coming with him, for a start, and I think that schtick mainly comes as a duo. I expect he will be quick-witted and irreverent, sure, but I also think he'll be more thoughtful than you might hear on Drive.
Was wondering about this. Much as I love Thursday drive when I get to listen to it...woud I love it first thing in the morning?
And personally I'm a big fan of the 'specialist show' format. We ended up listening to a lot of jazz and funk on sunday afternoons when we were renovating the house last year, which was great. But generally, if there's a demographic, I'll not be in it...
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Ha, yeah, it's funny how one's weekend moods can be set by the specialist show on at the time. I don't usually listen to the jazz show to be honest - nothing against the hosts, jazz just gets to me after a while (I find myself hearing songs that sound exactly like the bit in the promo for the show that says "it's like, do-doodle-oo, do-doodle-oh"!) but really like Automatic's Back on the Good Foot. Generally creates the perfect vibe for some sunday arvo wines.
And then, just when I'm a bit sozzled having sat through Sunday drive, Border Radio comes along and makes Sunday evening beautifully melancholy...
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As I complained recently about ratings re Campbell/Close Up etc, everyone loves ratings when they win, dismisses their validity when they don't. The best answer I believe is to stay away from them completely. Works for RNZ. Works for us at 7 don't ya reckon Russ?
Wellll ... neither Radio NZ or TVNZ 7 sell advertising, which has quite a big bearing on the need for audience measurement. And TVNZ 7 does get counted by Nielsen.
So I think buying those first ratings must've seemed smart, but having bought into the system, it becomes impossible to then pretend one is not part of it. Genuine question: If you could do it again, would you?
Yes. Ironically, one of the qualms about buying the ratings was that the last time it'd been done, the finding was that almost no one was listening, so that was actually a risk. I think it was worth demonstrating that the huge "others" category was mostly bFM.
The ratings information was useful for other reasons: bFM listeners came out tops for TSL (time spent listening) -- through the roof, compared to other stations -- and listenership doesn't really drop off with age until you get to people in their sixties. Also: bFM listeners are cleverer and wealthier than the average.
Perhaps, with 20-20 hindsight, it might have made sense to be more selective about what surveys to buy after the first one, but it's all settled out now anyway: there's a cluster of stations in Auckland with 40-50k listeners --bFM, George, Tarana -- but bFM remains more influential, and more noted in other media, than the ratings would suggest.
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there's a cluster of stations in Auckland with 40-50k listeners
Good Ratings means agencies put you on the schedule and you get given monies by business citizens who wouldn't normally give you money.
If you want to sell ads you need some concept of who's listening to those ads. Wouldn't we all rather not have to sell ads on our radio?
The measurement of listenership is pretty patchy and i'm sure a statitician would cough a little bit at how many boxes need to be ticked before you can claim true listening numbers, especially down the cluttered small ratings end of radio.
When i was 18 and started listening to b the age or expereince of the d.j never bothered me , i wanted to hear intelligent independent thought and mindfucking playlists.
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but it's all settled out now anyway: there's a cluster of stations in Auckland with 40-50k listeners --bFM, George, Tarana -- but bFM remains more influential, and more noted in other media, than the ratings would suggest.
Sure, but doesn't that mean ratings are a tool that should be used with some discrimination beyond the obvious top line? I know it's not a direct analogy, but The West Wing was always more a critical success than smash hit, while the Nielsen numbers were always respectable it never cracked the top ten aside from the third season. But, from an advertising point of view, while the show never appealed to the coverted 18-25 male demo, the people who were watching skewed very heavily towards rather affluent college graduates.
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I find myself hearing songs that sound exactly like the bit in the promo for the show that says "it's like, do-doodle-oo, do-doodle-oh"!
Heh heh heh. It's funny because it's true!
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But, from an advertising point of view, while the show never appealed to the coverted 18-25 male demo, the people who were watching skewed very heavily towards rather affluent college graduates.
Yup. I'm guessing bFM still has 2-3x the average of $100,000+ households.
The challenge is always to make sure that listeners keep tuning in as teenagers. Which doesn't mean becoming The Edge.
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Yup. I'm guessing bFM still has 2-3x the average of $100,000+ households
Everyones guessing to an extent.
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I guess my point was that having bought in the first time, we seemed somewhat condemned to keep buying them at the risk of "trying to hide something" if we didn't. And I remember that while the first ratings seemed really positive, because we really had no clue before that, the second survey (IIRC) showed a massive drop and bFM falling behind George, which was disheartening, and no doubt affected advertisers' decision-making.
bFM had advertising before it bought into surveys, Russ, you would perhaps know better than I do whether advertising revenue was up (in good surveys and bad) after joining the system than before. Because as you say, bFM has always had a cool factor that all those other 'marginal' radio stations didn't, and the ad agencies knew it.
As for TVNZ7 being part of the Neilsen ratings, probably, but I've never seen them reported anywhere, including the TVNZ intranet site, nor has anyone ever discussed them with me. Trust me, as someone who has worked on Close Up and Sunday, if you don't hear about them, and you're not being asked to change your show on a weekly basis as a result of them, they (to all intents and purposes) don't exist :)
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I guess my point was that having bought in the first time, we seemed somewhat condemned to keep buying them at the risk of "trying to hide something" if we didn't.
Markets like information, the more the better. Would you buy ads on a station that just winked at you and said, 'trust me"....the real problem with the ratings is not their existence but there accuracy.The fact that Auckland is smothered in frequencies makes the measurement even more difficult.
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the second survey (IIRC) showed a massive drop and bFM falling behind George, which was disheartening, and no doubt affected advertisers' decision-making.
Well it's a well known fact bfm lost large chunks of its 1990's audience. It was done in a quite stategic manner , imagine putting two talk back shows either side, close in on the dial of Newstalk. Quite nasty but clever.First you have to own all the frequencies. ...and of course they're not for sale to you.
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Markets like information, the more the better. Would you buy ads on a station that just winked at you and said, 'trust me"....
Again, as I said, bFM had advertising for many many years before it bought ratings in the 2000s. How much, and of what quality and value is the real question.
People buy advertising for all sorts of reasons. I'm amazed at the number of people who buy ads in magazines with no discernable readership (I also realise many ads in such magazine are freebees, contra etc). Often its because they want to support the people who are giving it a go, in the case of local titles. Other times they're doing it because it's 'cool'. And often, in any of these cases, because they are stupid.
When I helped get George FM off the ground I sold ads and sponsorship (as well as did the breakfast show, managed the station etc). We had no figures. But there was so much chatter about this new low frequency station in Ponsonby, people were willing to take a punt and get in on the ground floor. If they get a good response to their advertising, then they'll keep doing it, and ratings don't matter.
The worst thing was when people wanted to do ads saying "come in and tell us you heard this ad and get a free whatever" and no-one did...
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The worst thing was when people wanted to do ads saying "come in and tell us you heard this ad and get a free whatever" and no-one did...
50% of your marketing works apparently, just no one knows which half that is. Tis a strange industry.
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When I helped get George FM off the ground I sold ads and sponsorship (as well as did the breakfast show, managed the station etc). We had no figures. But there was so much chatter about this new low frequency station in Ponsonby, people were willing to take a punt and get in on the ground floor.
And yet, what really got George noticed by advertisers was that scorching survey you noted above. I'm not sure there's a right answer to this.
(BTW, I can only imagine how thrilled RadioWorks is about having bought George then finding Thane Kirby setting up Ponsonby FM 100 metres away.)
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(BTW, I can only imagine how thrilled RadioWorks is about having bought George then finding Thane Kirby setting up Ponsonby FM 100 metres away.
If RadioWorks didn't had the sense to put contractual steps in place to stop that happening, then they've got bigger problems than Thane :)
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50% of your marketing works apparently, just no one knows which half that is.
I'd heard it was more like 10%. When I was selling ads at b (waaay before ratings and we had our own way of selling around them) I used to tell people "they say only 10% of advertising works. If we knew which 10% we'd all be rich."
Funny - I used to sell ads at b with no ratings and at Pavement with no auditing. And did just fine.
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Because as you say, bFM has always had a cool factor that all those other 'marginal' radio stations didn't, and the ad agencies knew it.
I don't know bFM, but I presume it's the same as Radio One in Dunedin, in that they make a conscious decision by attaching themselves to the cool gigs and sponsoring the hippest things and organising parties etc, of being cooler than everyone else in town. There's some brand association of having your brand alongside with something that has managed to build that up.
I don't know if bFM has a membership card, Radio One has had one for many years and it always sells out. Radio stations aren't always just radio stations I guess.
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bFM is like Radio One in that sense (they are cooler than everyone else in town, associate their brand with the coolest gigs etc, and have a membership card), but it's not like Radio One in the sense that it reaches a massive number of people for a NZ student radio station. It's always been the big fish in the student radio pond. Which puts it in some awkward situations, and means it can compete with fully commercial radio stations.
Iin fact, in the last survey results (not the ones that came out on Friday, I don't have them), in the 25-39 demographic, out of 21 stations surveyed, bFM was in 6th place - ahead of ZB, which is a true goliath. It beat Hauraki, and More FM and George, and Radio Live (but was beaten by Breeze, ZM, Classic Hits, Mai and The Rock). That's impressive by anyone's standards.
It also says the audience is ageing....
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Also, just taking another look at those ratings, Breakfast is bFM's lowest rating part of the day, other than overnights, when everyone in the world seems to listen to ZB talkback.
Competition is of course fiercest at breakfast, but it does indicate that more people switch to (or stay with, rather than turning off after breakfast) bFM during the day. And bFM Drive is the most popular show.
(All this info is again, based on the last survey not the one that came out on Friday. If anyone has that info, feel free to send it on).
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Funny - I used to sell ads at b with no ratings and at Pavement with no auditing. And did just fine.
I sold some ice to an eskimo once. He was very thirsty.
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It also says the audience is ageing....
It hurts 'cos it's true...
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It hurts 'cos it's true...
It'll be like we were at the Pixes Mark - a whole bunch of us in our mid thirties all wearing Chuck Taylors... sigh.
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It'll be like we were at the Pixes Mark - a whole bunch of us in our mid thirties all wearing Chuck Taylors... sigh.
You read too many magazines.Stop 'sighing', it's unmanly.
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Your chuck taylors are going to have to last another 70 years,.
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And on the heels of PA Radio's awards nom comes Media7 winning two Freeview Awards.
Damian, Backbenches was runner-up in one category.
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