Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Angry and thrilled about Arie

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  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to asnz,

    Is the 3 month non association order up? If not, make plans, if so,act. Isn't there someone/s out here who can get them a chance to visit each other at least. C'mon, there is a need here to support them in the simplest way that the Police cant fuck up. An act of kindness would be to also get everyone organised to return their furniture when the time eventuates to piece their lives back together. and a cat at the SPCA has their name on it, surely?
    Whether it be an earthquake or appalling Police brutality, the people of Christchurch need to help, again. Don't let the police win. That will be so many types of wrong.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    “retards and crips have are sexless beings”? (Funny how often people will assume that David’s my father not my partner. FFS, I've got more white hair!)

    Well that's easily solved.
    " Hi this is my lover David. :)"

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Serenity FTW!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4461 posts Report

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Gotta contrast Arie's treatment with the (reasonably) lenient treatment given to a security guard who stole over $2k worth of gear from the Harvey Norman he was "guarding".

    I have difficulty understanding how (contrary to the bail laws) somebody could be jailed for stealing valueless items and not for egregious theft when in a position of trust. Maybe the real offence is conspicuously challenging authority - it's ok to loot as long as you do it discreetly while wearing some sort of uniform.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    security guard who stole over $2k worth of gear

    Oh now that really sucks. Theft as a servant was always considered the worst form, because the "trust" is also taken. This is becoming more like a vendetta when you compare that persons outcome. If there was some consistency with these cases I would be inclined to think my prejudices might be unwarranted. Now I suspect I'm right.
    The system is failing. Period!

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report

  • Hilary Stace,

    Rumour that Judith Collins has ordered police to drop charges against Arie S-V (and hopefully Michael too). Anyone heard any more?

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3229 posts Report

  • Hilary Stace,

    Good to see that there are several MPs watching this case. Rumours that the announcement about dropping charges will be made on Monday. Latest from GayNZ

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3229 posts Report

  • recordari, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Thanks for keeping this going Hilary. Hoping for a positive turnaround, or at least some humanity.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report

  • merc,

    Reparations and public police apology too please. Also an independent investigation into how often human rights breaches like this have occurred in the past, especially with reference to Christchurch.
    Also a real commitment to training for all police with reference to youth and the use of psychological and physical trauma on them.
    Also if there are any cultural issues around imported police and the army personal who may have been involved.
    Also! Use of unnecessary police force (assault) and wrongful detention. I wont hold my breath.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report

  • Kumara Republic,

    Even rapists and murderers don't usually "trip and fall down the stairs". Could it be that Arie is an easy national scapegoat who won't likely fight back his arrestors? Do people really think he's a would-be Martin Bryant in spite of evidence to the contrary?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report

  • Hilary Stace,

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3229 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    It would be good if John could avoid confusing things by dragging the generator thieves into this. Not helpful.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Do people really think he’s a would-be Martin Bryant in spite of evidence to the contrary?

    No, they don't think that. No one thinks that.

    The Christchurch police are ineptly covering for original actions that are, in the context of the psychological bruising they had been subject to, forgivable. But only if they acknowledged wrong and apologised.

    Instead, they have compounded the original offence. The non-association order we've now learned about is just unfathomably cruel. At some point, this has to stop. And, as I said way back in the original post, it is incumbent on the Minister to stop it if the police will not.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Russell Brown,

    The Christchurch police are ineptly covering for original actions that are, in the context of the psychological bruising they had been subject to, forgivable

    Hardly. It wasn’t the police that had been psychologically bruised, it was the city. If this created an environment in which police brutality might be more then usually excused or even welcomed by the public opinion, it still wouldn’t make their actions forgiveable. But you’re right that they’ve managed to make matters even worse. And it really has to stop.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    The non-association order we've now learned about

    I'm surprised the Sunday show did not mention it, given that they interviewed both Arie and Michael.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Russell Brown,

    So they're basically trying to save both their face and their arse. They can have one or the other, but not both.

    What irked me were certain Stuff/Your Views comments taking a Nixonian "support your coppers & let them do their job" view, with corresponding bile about Arie bringing it all on himself despite the fact he wouldn't hurt a fly.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report

  • HORansome, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    I'll "+1" or "Like" Gio's comment. The police are in a position of power with respect to the public and the need to exercise a duty of care (even with respect to people who have engaged in criminal activity) is paramount, no matter the psychological bruising they might have suffered.

    Tāmaki Makaurau • Since Sep 2008 • 441 posts Report

  • Russell Brown, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Hardly. It wasn’t the police that had been psychologically bruised, it was the city. If this created an environment in which police brutality might be more then usually excused or even welcomed by the public opinion, it still wouldn’t make their actions forgiveable. But you’re right that they’ve managed to make matters even worse. And it really has to stop.

    I used the word “forgive” rather than “excuse” advisedly.

    It’s reasonable to suppose that working police officers may have been particularly traumatised by the February earthquake and its aftermath, in a way that other residents might not have. They’ll also have been feeling the same emotions about “looters” as most of the city, and been in a position to act on them.

    And yet there also also no doubt that they failed in both their duty of care and their professional standards. A restorative justice process that acknowledged that in a timely fashion would have been adequate for me. And, I think I am correct in saying, for Arie.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Russell Brown,

    It’s reasonable to suppose that working police officers may have been particularly traumatised by the February earthquake and its aftermath, in a way that other residents might not have. They’ll also have been feeling the same emotions about “looters” as most of the city, and been in a position to act on them.

    Items one to ten of their job description are about not abusing that authority, however. And you're not saying that it would have been okay for them to rough up actual honest-to-god looters, I presume, yes? There are broader issues than your feelings, or even Arie's, to consider in a determination of what would have been "forgiveable".

    In fact pursuing a convinction so aggressively might just have been designed to create a scenario in which the police will be able to walk away simply by dropping the charges, as opposed to facing charges of their own for their treatment of a defenceless suspect. And to the extent that they might have lost some face, I suspect they care about material impunity more. (I could, of course, be completely wrong about this.)

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    police will be able to walk away simply by dropping the charges

    I suspect that would be the intent at this stage, yes.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • HORansome, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Thumbs up to Gio once again.

    Tāmaki Makaurau • Since Sep 2008 • 441 posts Report

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to Sacha,

    I suspect that the Sunday people didn't ask about Michael's plight or the non- association order, and Michael only revealed his own story on the Facebook page later. He seems a very self-effacing person with his main interest in supporting Arie. One of the shocking things about this whole saga is that injustice keeps compounding as more details are revealed.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3229 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    I'm imagining a conversation along the lines of "why can't we interview you both together then?"

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Russell Brown, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Items one to ten of their job description are about not abusing that authority, however. And you’re not saying that it would have been okay for them to rough up actual honest-to-god looters, I presume, yes?

    I am not saying anything that happened to anyone outside best police practice was "okay" and, to be honest, I'm really struggling to keep a civil tongue with your for implying that.

    What I am saying is that I hold police commanders, who had the ability to consider events in daylight, more culpable than the arresting officers. It was their job to hold their subordinates to account, to take steps to ensure it never happened again, and to effect a resolution. Which would, I think, have taken the form of a restorative justice action rather than a prosecution Arie repeatedly made it clear he did not want.

    Christchurch police command, in the light of day, instead consciously decided on a strategy of cruel bullying and cover-up. That is unforgiveable.

    There are broader issues than your feelings, or even Arie’s, to consider in a determination of what would have been “forgiveable”.

    C'mon. Don't patronise me.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    I suspect that the Sunday people didn’t ask about Michael’s plight or the non- association order, and Michael only revealed his own story on the Facebook page later. He seems a very self-effacing person with his main interest in supporting Arie.

    That was my understanding -- he deliberately didn't talk about his problems because he wanted the focus to be on Arie.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report

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