Posts by mark taslov
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Erstwhile thread. I'm sensing that a problematic subtext in the modernization of the ancient custom of marriage, could be that in these times of supposed gender equality, where the women are often labored with the tasks of both bringing home and frying the bacon, that reconciling the two may be a valid starting point in alleviating the hypocrisy of submitting to a patriarchal system. For example If our day job were to encourage people to celebrate truancy, but our night job were to discourage our children from that very practice. Such a conflict of interest could potentially lead to one questioning one's own purpose or role on a public domain.
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"For the last eight years, all we've heard about is some mysterious outside force that threatens our security and our livelihood everyday... we've been told the last eight years...that some outside force is threatening our way of life and our jobs and our livelihoods...and after eight long years of that bullshit...it must dawn on all of us that its that same government that is the terrorist force sitting across from us. And I'm not just talking about the Bush administration, but the whole sick, conformist apparatus - Democrats too! They're supposed to step up and be our voice in congress and they turned their backs on us. They turned their backs on the workers. They turned their backs on the soldiers. They got right behind Bush lock step and got this country into another sick war. Now we know brother Obama. We know brother Obama. But I tell you what, if he comes to power come November and he doesn't start pulling troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq, I know a lot of people who are gonna stand up and burn down every office of every Senator that doesn't do his job. All this hell we've been seeing is just the beginning, it's just the beginning. And no matter what happens in the elections, I'll say this. That there is a generation of young black and latino brothers and sisters that are gonna force everyone in this country to make a decision very soon about what side they're going to stand on. And they're a generation of kids who don't give a fuck about national politics. They care about bread. They care about water. They care about housing and they care about justice. And they ain't gonna fucking stand for any of that shit. They're just not gonna take it.
This new generation of blacks and latinos and Muslim brothers and sisters are gonna stand up and make this country an offer it can't refuse. An offer it can't refuse. So wake up! Wake up! Wake up!"
”
— Zack de la Rocha
In his early youth, de la Rocha's father Roberto de la Rocha (known as Beto)—a member of Los Four, the first Chicano art collective to be exhibited at a major museum (LACMA, 1973)—suffered a nervous breakdown and took his religious ideals to extremes. He destroyed his art and when Zack visited him on the weekends, he was forced to fast, sit in a room with the curtains closed and the door locked and help destroy his father's paintings.
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Ahh, isn't gin a depressant?
Damn right it's a depressant Sacha, I've moved onto White Russians with Malibu this morning.
With all due respect Emma, the assumption that people contribute here simply to 'piss people off' is a tad fanciful. People contribute to express opinion and share knowledge. Despite differences in opinion, contributors generally read with open eyes, without resorting to easy put downs in the safe knowledge that the posting box at the bottom protects their right of reply. their right to clarify and their right to construe. So, to be sure Emma, I posted neither to make a point nor to piss people off but to clarify on an oversight on my part in relation to a point I felt I had not made with due care previously. A point made in respect to the definition of respect. I feel there's nothing too inappropriate about posting on this subject in light of the origins of the word;
1300–50; (n.) ME (< OF) < L respectus action of looking back, consideration, regard, equiv. to respec-, var. s. of respicere to look back (re- re- + specere to look) + -tus suffix of v. action; (v.) < L respectus ptp. of respicere
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/respect
First, as suggested by its derivation from the Latin respicere, which means “to look back at” or “to look again,” respect is a particular mode of apprehending the object: the person who respects something pays attention to it and perceives it differently from someone who does not and responds to it in light of that perception.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/respect/#ConRes
Looking back at some of the quibbles levied at my presupposed misuse of the term, I drunkenly feel morally obligated to ensure a clarity of understanding is reached.
So Sacha, if I may;
most of us make distinctions between creative use of language and the more precise kind you need when arguing a point
I do not argue that distinctions need to be made, The distinctions we make are a personal venture, and usually unconscious. However I'm not wholly in disagreement that the distinction required in this case is between creative use of a language and that other type you so eruditely elucidate. I feel the distinction required is simply in computing the intended and most relevant interpretation of the verb 'respect' as used in the post that lured you.
Generally speaking, the collected reader is able to distinguish and interpret through many shades of meaning, acclimatizing the use or placement of given words with their trajectory. The world of language is not a clamor of boxes, each seeking your full and undivided attention, but a series; a continuum of signposts. Sacha I was hastened by your posts, to put this down. Particularly your post;Mark, it's two quite different concepts being labelled with the same name. Just look at the difference in the modifiers in those definitions - "esteem, worth, excellence, quality" vs "deference, privilege, acceptance, acknowledgement".
As if the these 'two quite different concepts' were somehow inconveniently 'labelled' in defiance of the greater good. Quite different? Or merely different ends of the same piece of twine? If we need look more closely at the origin of the word;
respect (n.)
c.1300, from L. respectus "regard," lit. "act of looking back at one," pp. of respicere "look back at, regard, consider," from re- "back" + specere "look at" (see scope (1)). The verb is 1542, from the noun. Meaning "treat with deferential regard or esteem" is from 1560; respectable "worthy of respect" is from 1586 (implied in respected).Observe that the deferential use of 'respect' predated the 'distinct' attitudinal definition (that some would claim is mandatory), by 26 years: The interpretation 'worthy of respect' following logically from the initial simple respect.
It wasn't left there, the cavalry of languages past and present was let loose at the speed of vomit. Sacha, (I heartily thank you for this) you encouraged me to think of mana and how someone gets it;
I encourage you to think of "mana" and how someone gets it.</quote
I quite congenially interpreted that you referred to the maori term 'mana', not the Turkish meaning, meaning 'meaning', nor the Coatian definition; 'defect'. 'Mana'
<quote> From Polynesian religion, and its modern use is a result of the popularization of the concept by anthropology and, to a great extent, by certain varieties of fantasy fiction. In Polynesian culture (e.g., Hawaiian, Māori), mana is analogous to respect, but it combines elements of respect, authority, power, and prestige.
http://links.mana-the-movie.com/Mana.html
A word that has very little bearing on my initial intended meaning, we do have 'authority' and 'power' in there, but it's a noun. Nonetheless your post was educational, in terms of gauging why some people felt 'respect' was inadequate in my initial post. Doubtless, a different word, a different inference, from a different language.
Now Danielle,
That's not respect. That's fear.
and Eddie Clark,
Ha! I am proved correct. Mark, you're conflating obedience and respect. A certain about of obedience to authority is indeed required for a properly ordered society (the degree of obedience is very much up for debate). That ISN'T the same as respect. To use a slightly extreme example, I wouldn't respect a hypothetical homophobic cop in the slightest, but I might well be obedient in order to avoid negative consequences to myself.
The Stanford Encyclopedia of philosophy seeks to distinguish some interpretations of 'respect'. These are not distinctions between the creative and 'argumentative'(definition 3) use., but between the behavioral and attitudinal uses. Here are some examples given;
We might speak of drivers respecting the speed limit, hostile forces as respecting a cease fire agreement, or AIDS as not respecting national borders, and in such cases we can be referring simply to behavior which avoids violation of or interference with some boundary, limit, or rule, without any reference to attitudes, feelings, intentions, or dispositions, and even, as in the case of the AIDS virus, without imputing agency (Bird 2004)
Danielle and Eddie, no i did not mean fear, I wasn't conflating. I do not dispute the later attitudinal variation of the term. I merely seek that my use of the initial intended behavioral meaning be respected by my peers, not in attitude(obviously), but at least in behavior(if possible).
So to my initial post, and the distinctly passive use of 'respect';
When you breed a culture where the teacher is not respected, regardless of how good or bad they are, you not only undermine your own child's education, but by peer corroboration, the education of their fellow students too.
In light of the various forces, encountered by this teacher without prestige over the course of this engaging tit for tat, summed up quite poignantly by Mr. Eddie Clark of Wellington with his decidedly eloquent;
No I just think you're wrong, Mark
My point has been duly illustrated.
Sorry to interrupt Emma, have a good one.
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Just checking if anyone was there; r No more gin* for mark.
*an alcoholic liquor obtained by distilling grain mash with juniper berries. not a stationary prime mover having a drive shaft rotated by horizontal beams pulled by horses walking in a circle.
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Watched 'righteous kill' last night;
The chaaracter Tom says;
"most people respect the badge, everyone respects the gun."So in case Eddie Clark, Danielle, Sacha etc ever watch this movie or another like it (of which there are many), and get caught on these lines, and naturally assume there must have been some kind of mistake, or are flummoxed to the point that you are overcome by that cute desire to write in and correct De Niro or the screenwriter. This thread could serve as a helpful reference point in lieu of days wagged.
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haha! that's a total mindf@ck, clearly "a long time ago in a galaxy far away" wasn't as long ago as I'd originally calculated.
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On topic, can these filters be worked around with a proxy?
No one knows or no one cares? That was an interesting post Mark Harris of Waikanai. Frankly I'm staggered watching the various clampdowns on offer in the name of safety measures to preserve freedom.
As possums transfixed in the headlights. People seem to be getting better at turning a blind eye as yesterday's femdoms(sic) become today's taboos. Don't get me wrong; 'Not always right' is a very funny site, but the avoidance of the topic at hand is somewhat glaring.
I sense a populace largely disinterested in the ramifications of the implementation of such measures, disinclined to care much whether the definitions of what constitutes 'hate-based' or objectionable, increases markedly between now and our grandchildrens' era.
A populace largely trusting the machinations of democracy, far more than is generally recommended for any type of government anywhere.
I was looking for was whether pages or images were blocked for political reasons.
It's a very loose term, 'political reasons'; the parameters freely subject to change on whims, especially when dealing with concepts as ambiguous as 'hate-based'.
In relation to 'Rear Vision' and the general overuse of the term pornography, (as minced by Joseph Slade) defined as;
obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, esp. those having little or no artistic merit.
in contrast to the term you went on to use; 'erotica' , defined thus;
literature or art dealing with sexual love.
Quite distinct almost opposite interpretations of the same thing, yet here (and with some bias I feel), used almost interchangeably in the excerpt.
as Mark mentioned;
which forbids even images of age-qualified persons who are posed to look as if they are underage.
Angus Young from ACDC is the first thing that comes to mind, not to mention early Britney. But in essence, my main feeling is 'who are we kidding?'
As my experiences working around this kind of thing in this neck of the woods have taught me, there's always more out there...
Most amusing in the 'Rear Vision', was how these intellectuals discuss the religious function, the educational purposes, illuminated manuscripts, marginalia, political pornography, but not one of them dares touch the prime purpose of contemporary 'pornography' being to serve as stimulus for a tube sock assisted wank.
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On topic, can these filters be worked around with a proxy?
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Like Emma I think that in the NZ setting that sort of wide-scale cheating is unlikely to happen
yea, (that's totally right), i really should stop with these tenuous arguments, playing devil's advocate's assistant too long is hard work.
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I can't see why the new testing regime would cause this, given no previous testing regime has.
Clear national standards in reading, writing, and numeracy will be negotiated with the education sector. Secondly, all primary schools will be required to use assessment programmes that compare the progress of their students with those standards. Schools will be able to choose from a range of tools including existing ones. Thirdly, parents will have the right to see all assessment information and receive regular plain English reports about their child’s progress towards national standards.
There could be said to be certain incentives to get a higher grade.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0812/S00158.htm
while back on topic