Posts by Farmer Green
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Hard News: Fact and fantasy, in reply to mccx,
. It makes little environmental difference if some practices have improved if intensification and other changes have offset these improvements.
That's a very broad brush: the response to changed practice is different for each of the three measures commonly considered:- nitrate; phosphate ; coliforms.
It depends on which one you think causes the most environmental damage.FG thinks there was very little data collected before about 1980.
"How quickly you move from “non-farmer” to “uninformed” is telling. "
Scientists are generally regarded as informed non-farmers , wouldn't you say?
Yes , there is a section of farming which is totally dismissive of Farmer Green's approach ; the same dismissal can be found amongst a section of the science community and a certain section of the public. No surprise there , so what is your point?
A one -sided discussion focussing purely on environment will go nowhere. The economic and social aspects are equally important.
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Hard News: Fact and fantasy, in reply to mccx,
It seems that you are unaware of the massive changes that have already occurred in agriculture point -source discharges. If you knew what was normal in the Waikato 40 years ago then would be aware of the change. That is not to say that there is not more to do. That’s obvious.
I agree that farmers in general and Fed Farmers are dismissive of uninformed comment.
Which is where FG started by quoting Jacqueline Rowarth :-
“lack of societal understanding of what it takes to farm is one of the biggest threats facing NZ agriculture”. When people are threatened , they behave in predictable , non constructive ways.
Some here believe they know enough to prescribe courses of action , not understanding what is entailed.
The only thing which will reduce nitrogen enrichment of waterways is a general lowering of stocking rates, but even that simple piece of established science is not understood here. Which demonstrates the effectiveness of the Clean Streams Accord in deflecting attention from the critical issue.
To stop phosphate enrichment we have to end soil erosion, mostly in the hill-country, and point source discharges of phosphorus from urban sewage outfalls.FG has attempted to show that there is an economic problem entwined in the environmental (and social) problem. For sustainability we have to crack the trifecta.
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Hard News: Fact and fantasy, in reply to Farmer Green,
“It isn’t necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice. There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia.”
Frank Zappa -
Hard News: Fact and fantasy, in reply to Chris Waugh,
And it does matter because if our farmers don’t feed us, who will? Monsanto?
That's a very compelling argument.
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Hard News: Fact and fantasy, in reply to mccx,
Is the LWF thing all over? I didn’t know that.
But you're right there is no story yet that is going to generate enthusiasm among those who do not farm. That doesn't really matter does it?
So if the LWF is no more , then what does happen next?
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Hard News: Fact and fantasy, in reply to Sacha,
Inside knowledge?
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Yes , obviously. Mathematics and physics are at the core of the GCMs. Those are his fields of expertise
And the source of your rumour is? Actually who cares where you got that ? Most scientists understand what it means to have only unvalidated models. -
Environmental Protection Society: farming has to change.
Federated Farmers: we know that farming has to change.
Not much of a story there for the chattering classes, is there?
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Fair enough. You just don't get it do you?
The nitrogen goes under the fence and eventually reaches the river.
And you seem to miss completely the need for a total redesign.A one trick pony perhaps?
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Hard News: Fact and fantasy, in reply to andin,
I think the point was that city dwellers should be prepared for the effects of a downturn in agriculture , which means less money coming into the country, unless we borrow more.
The headline of the article was to do with mythbusting.