The Greening

12:23 Jul 8, 2008 55

Okay, I have a half-written post about National's broadcasting policy (short version: sky not actually falling) but that'll have to wait for tomorrow. I've run out of time preparing for tonight's Media7 recording, where I'll be joined by Vincent Heeringa, publisher of the newly-launched Good magazine ("New Zealand's guide to sustainable living"), Woman's Weekly editor Sido Kitchin (who recently ran a "green issue") and automotive curmudgeon Clive Matthew-Wilson.

The topic is the greening of the media, and how sustainability is the new black (or, in the case of Trelise Cooper's shopping bag, pink). How much is green consumerism really saying the world and how much is it just making us feel better about buying stuff?

If you'd like to come along to the recording at The Classic in Queen Street early this evening, email me quicksmart via the "reply" link below. Otherwise, feel free to share your thoughts in advance of the show.

55 responses to this post

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Jim Cathcart, 12:53 Jul 8, 2008

It's interesting that up here in the Kansai rust belt of Japan, innovation in "green" manufacturing has been ratcheted up quite a number of clicks. We're talking real utilitarian, practical application with visible cost, environmental, and energy-saving benefits. Even companies such as Sanyo that were mocked as monoltihs not so long ago are steaming ahead with innovation. Sanyo has a great new green monument to the revolution, the "Solar Ark".
http://www.sanyo.com/solarark/en/about/index.html

Since Nov 2006 • 228 posts Report
Robyn Gallagher, 12:59 Jul 8, 2008

I knew Good magazine had launched when every bookshop or newsagent I went into had a topless Robyn Malcolm smiling benevolently down at me. Eek!
In recent weeks I've heard two (very much non-greenie) people moaning about all the "green" things they're being enticed to buy. Consuming less is the ultimate green move, but you can't sell that.
I mean, it's all very well buying a shopping bag so you don't have to get a plastic bag with every thing you buy, but do you really need to buy a $40 shopping bag?

Since Nov 2006 • 1946 posts Report
Jackie Clark, 13:00 Jul 8, 2008

Quite, Robyn.

Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report
Thom James, 13:04 Jul 8, 2008

An aquaintance works for the agency that does VW's advertising. They're doing campaigns around how green their "BlueMotion" vehicles are, yet VW have just released the R50 Touareg into NZ, a top-of-the-range V10 monster of a 4X4, and are about to launch their fastest ever vehicle, the R32 Passat. Which sorta undermines their eco-cred, wouldn't you say?
It's all just so much lipservice for so many companies, a marketing tool; tick the wee box marked 'green', then resume business as normal.

Auckland • Since Apr 2007 • 63 posts Report
Ian MacKay, 13:22 Jul 8, 2008

Regarding the VW's advertising etc: A few months ago a motoring expert drove a VW 4X4 from Auckland to Wellington and back again on a single tank of fuel. He still had enough to get him to Whangarei. I don't know who he was, or which model but he was staggered at the economy. Anyone?

Bleheim • Since Nov 2006 • 498 posts Report
Craig Ranapia, 13:28 Jul 8, 2008

I knew Good magazine had launched when every bookshop or newsagent I went into had a topless Robyn Malcolm smiling benevolently down at me. Eek!
Well, at least her toplessness is benevolent. For some of us, that state falls foul of all kinds of local, domestic and international laws. :)
(or, in the case of Trelise Cooper's shopping bag, pink)
Well, I'm sure that it's doing wonders for the Cooper brand. But aren't they made out of plastic -- and plastic a vile shade of pink I doubt has ever existed in nature. I still go through the checkout and cast a sceptical eye over those great mounds of 'eco-bags'. So, a hundred thousand of the damn things in a landfill are better than the other sort?

North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report
andrew llewellyn, 13:56 Jul 8, 2008

<blockquote>Anyone?</blockquote>
I doubt it was the V10 version - but touaregs have huge tanks. Ours (smallest v6 petrol version) is surprisingly economical, but nowhere near as our 1.8 litre 4 cylinder hatchback.

Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report
Shep Cheyenne, 13:57 Jul 8, 2008

I popped into my fave bike shop on Manchester st and they have a selection of baskets - including wicker! that either fix on or simply hook on and have handy handles to walk around the shops.

As for Trelise Cooper, isn't she suing the Green Movement for copying her idea of sustainability?

Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report
andrew llewellyn, 13:58 Jul 8, 2008

But aren't they made out of plastic
I've got hold of a plastic ballpoint pen that is apparently, biodegradable & made of corn. (Yeah, if they ain't growing biofuel, they're growing plastic pens).
Haven't tried it with butter & a shake of chilli powder yet.

Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report
James Littlewood*, 14:16 Jul 8, 2008

Robyn G: Yeah consuming less works, and true, it's hard to sell.
But consumption is not only the responsibility of consumers. It's something that can be controlled more effectively at the point of production.
The Greens' water-usage tax is what is needed across the board ... if you implement water efficiencies, you pay less tax.
National & Key, and Labour if they get the chance, should follow suit: reduce income tax and company tax, but increase consumption taxes. That will enable the creation of recycling industries, which takes the responsibility off consumers without adding to the cost of living. I think.

Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 410 posts Report
Kyle Matthews, 14:25 Jul 8, 2008

I've got hold of a plastic ballpoint pen that is apparently, biodegradable & made of corn. (Yeah, if they ain't growing biofuel, they're growing plastic pens).
Good to see technology making the phrase "they don't grow on trees you know!" redundant.

Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report
Lyndon Hood, 14:30 Jul 8, 2008

One thing about green consumerism is that while it probably can make a difference, done properly, I wouldn't think it would be enough.
If you accept pollution and resources depletion need fixing, that's a group action problem - you need to arrange things so everyone ups their game. That's a political action, not shopping.
For it to work, everyone does have to contribute; but if everyone's conscience actually is sated by some fairly token measures, you might not get the motivation for real change.

Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1115 posts Report
andrew llewellyn, 14:32 Jul 8, 2008

I thought that supermarket plastic bags were already biodegradable. My problem is, if they're phased out, what will I line my kitchen rubbish bin with? Will I have to buy custom made bin liners?

Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report
Shep Cheyenne, 14:38 Jul 8, 2008

"The Greens' water-usage tax is what is needed across the board ... if you implement water efficiencies, you pay less tax. "
Maybe but National want to privatise water, so it is a tradable comodity. This is dangerous and has serious implications.
We have made great mistakes with Quota Managment in Fishing (notice the recent closures).
If water is to be 'traded' or taxed. Ownership must rest in the community, not private hands.
A mangaged use of water with regulations for use which would pretty much stop dairying to its current extent, at least in Canty. Tax doesn't need to be used, but laisse faire is a disaster.

Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report
George Darroch, 14:47 Jul 8, 2008

There's evidence that green consumerism is often actually counterproductive to environmental goals. People take small steps, the sense of need to change is blunted, and people are content again.

WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report
Tom Semmens, 14:59 Jul 8, 2008

Here is a couple of genuine Green questions, that came up last night as we were stoking up the fire in the lounge at home.
1/ What happens to all those plastic milk bottles that go out every Tuesday in Kingsland for recycling? Some say they just get sent to the land fill, others say they are chopped up and sent to fuel China's thermal power stations.
2/ If either of the above is correct, is it actually more sustainable in a total carbon lifecycle/footprint way to just burn the bottles on your own fire and save the fossil fuels used to transport and compact/burn them, and economise on wood?

Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report
andrew llewellyn, 15:18 Jul 8, 2008

1/ What happens to all those plastic milk bottles that go out every Tuesday in Kingsland for recycling?
Don't they get turned into sleeveless polar fleece vests?

Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report
Russell Brown, 15:19 Jul 8, 2008

I thought that supermarket plastic bags were already biodegradable. My problem is, if they're phased out, what will I line my kitchen rubbish bin with? Will I have to buy custom made bin liners?
I gather that when there was a project to cut back on single-use plastic bags in Ireland, bin-liner sales jumped 400%.

Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report
Russell Brown, 15:23 Jul 8, 2008

1/ What happens to all those plastic milk bottles that go out every Tuesday in Kingsland for recycling? Some say they just get sent to the land fill, others say they are chopped up and sent to fuel China's thermal power stations.
I think that's a myth, but plastic recycling certainly ain't all it's cracked up to be.

Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report
Mikaere Curtis, 15:25 Jul 8, 2008

Consuming less is the ultimate green move, but you can't sell that.
Exactly. It's related to our fixation on continuous economic growth in a world of finite resources. I'd like to see a new indicator that instead of measuring Gross Domestic Product, meaures Gross Domestic Efficiency: how much we need to consume to get a specific outcome. A lower GDE would be a better GDE. Obviously we'd never get anywhere near zero (nor would it be a goal), but I think it would be useful.
For example, it may turn out that returning to glass milk bottles is more efficient (haven't seen the numbers, so can't say for certain).
BUT, we would actually need to take stock of the full cost of an economic activity. I wonder how much a litre of milk would cost if we costed in the downstream effect of polluted waterways, such as the effect on our endangered eel species ?
I'm pretty leery of Green Consumerism because I don't think the thinking behind it is looking at the big picture, only the small picture (profits !).
2/ If either of the above is correct, is it actually more sustainable in a total carbon lifecycle/footprint way to just burn the bottles on your own fire and save the fossil fuels used to transport and compact/burn them, and economise on wood?
I don't know what happens to plastic milk bottles, but wouldn't burning them release noxious chemicals into the atmosphere ?

Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 528 posts Report
andrew llewellyn, 15:27 Jul 8, 2008

ain't all it's cracked up to be.
What, when it is at home, is plastic lumber? And textiles - I think I was right about the polar fleece.

Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report
Dave Waugh, 15:27 Jul 8, 2008

National want to privatise water, so it is a tradable comodity. This is dangerous and has serious implications.
That is the single most scary thing I've heard this year! :o(

Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 98 posts Report
andrew llewellyn, 15:30 Jul 8, 2008

I don't know what happens to plastic milk bottles, but wouldn't burning them release noxious chemicals into the atmosphere ?
I love the smell of burning corn in the morning.
But seriously, do they really burn plastic in power stations? Is that what plastic lumber is?

Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report
Gareth Ward, 15:42 Jul 8, 2008

Mikaere, I like your GDE measurement idea - not as a replacement for GDP but to sit alongside. Countries like Japan were energy efficiency is miles ahead would appreciate it as well...
But the profitability of green business is a good thing and a large driver of Kyoto and the entire FCCC - make it an even more profitable thing to be more efficient. Hopefully businesses can see that being efficient in resource use and long-run sustainable has actually been an underlying tenet of competitive capitalism since 19Tickety7

Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report
Rex Widerstrom, 15:45 Jul 8, 2008

Plastic lumber is, err, plastic that's made to look like lumber, actually. Can't imagine them going to the trouble of making it, then burning it.
There's a growing trend in Australia to making fences etc out of it because you never have to paint them and they never rot, and from a distance they look sufficiently 'real' to not dent property values.
But more exciting still is the increasing use of construction methods such as walls made of polystyrene sandwiched between two sheets of gyprock - cheap, mostly made of recyclables, easy to assemble, ready insulated...

Perth, Western Australia • Since Nov 2006 • 157 posts Report