Cracker by Damian Christie

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Cracker: Go Figure

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  • giovanni tiso,

    It's hip-hop vs. hip-op

    That's very nice. I hope you're taking the rest of the day off.

    One of the shows I contract to, Back Benches, is on commercial-free Freeview.

    Which I'm getting today via telstra as part of the basic sky package. Yipppeeeeee!

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Tristan,

    I have a TiVo it won't tell you that I watch back benches but i do :) usually on a sunday morning while have bacon and eggs, its a nice start to the day.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 221 posts Report Reply

  • Alien Lizard (anag),

    How will they figure out their viewer figures once more people get Tivo or MySky boxes (or similar devices)?
    Especially if some of them can skip ads...

    and what about the on-demand viewer traffic
    (topless sunworshippers as a case in point)

    anyway current TV seems to be too many Chefs
    and not enough Indies for my liking...
    (though Doctor Who and the anagram
    starting soon is good!)

    The Arrrgh Complex • Since Jan 2010 • 158 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    MILF Island is testing off the charts in the most profitable demographics: Soccer moms, NASCAR dads, white collar pervs and the obese.

    - 30 Rock

    I have to admit I don't really watch TV - not because I'm so fucking sophisiticated I'd rather be reading Proust, but because I don't have the attention span to sit through all the ad breaks. I always wander off and do something else and forget about what I was watching.

    I do actually watch a lot of TV on DVD - Lost, Sopranos, Mad Men etc. I probably watch TV shows more than I watch movies. And I watched a lot of tv in the UK and the US, where the ad breaks are only a couple times an hour - but in New Zealand it seems like the breakdown is about 40% ads to 60% programming, which doesn't really work for me.

    I realise I'm a bit of an outlier here - people often talk to me about which ads they like and don't like and get alienated when I can't respond. But I'm also a member of a highly targeted advertising demographic, and most of the people I know in my own cohort also watch little to no television. So I do wonder whether tv advertising in New Zealand has so saturated the medium that they've actually damaged their own industry.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    I do actually watch a lot of TV on DVD - Lost, Sopranos, Mad Men etc. I probably watch TV shows more than I watch movies. And I watched a lot of tv in the UK and the US, where the ad breaks are only a couple times an hour - but in New Zealand it seems like the breakdown is about 40% ads to 60% programming, which doesn't really work for me.

    It's always frustrating to watch something, knowing that they've cut a good number of minutes out in order to slot in more advertising, and that if you were watching the same program elsewhere in the world you'd see the entire thing.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Interesting thought, Danyl.

    The end of my regular TV watching came around 2000. I had just spent 6 months in the UK, watching very little TV because we didn't get around to buying one, but what I did see didn't have many ads.

    Once back in NZ, I just couldn't get into the local TV any more. One reason was that my marriage was breaking up and TV seemed just stupid and remote compared to the emotional trauma I was going through -- I started feeling actively angry about the relentless cheer which I couldn't share. And the station promos and ads dominated my experience of it. All this enthusiasm, about stuff and crap and shit! It was a mental assault.

    Even now, if we go and stay at my Dad's or at the in-laws', and the tv is on, I find myself unable to tolerate the ads, and I leave the room, and find something else to do, and don't come back.

    I know that's how most TV is funded, and I ought to put up with them in order to enjoy the fruits of all the money that's put into programming, but I just can't.

    I also wonder if multi-tasking internettery is destroying my ability to sit down and watch a programme. 2000 is also about when I started being glued to the internet at home as well as at work.

    About the 1500 people -- that strikes me as quite reasonable, at first blush, except that they're the same people from week to week. On the one hand, that gives you an excellent view of the changing appeal of things. On the other hand, without a fresh sample on a regularly basis, any oddities in your original selection will never get cleaned up the way that they do in, say, political opinion polling.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Graham,

    I have wondered for many years what the worth is of a single viewer per hour.

    Presumably it is easy enough to calculate, The sum of the cost to run the ads in that hour divided by the number of viewers. I have access to neither of those figures though.

    I remember those nasty ads several years back that tried to justify ads. Implying that if we didn't have advertising then we'd all be paying something like $10 an hour.

    Of course the truth is that people do pay for free to air television in increased prices of products and services that have a portion of their revenue go into advertising budgets. It's just doing things this way we get to pay for our television and be annoyed by ads.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 118 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    As I was once told in a lecture, weather forecasts aren't wrong per se, the events just don't happen in the timeframe it's predicted they will.

    Somehow puts me in mind of something Billy Connolly once said:

    "There's no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing choices."

    When does Backbenchers start again? I presume that hideous green(ish) shirt gets stored in a lead container & buried in several tonnes of cement until next summer?

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    In the early 80s I was chosen by some faceless piece of government to be the cost of living person for a month - I had to write down every single expense for the month - they mostly had to do with protesting the Springbok tour - I also bought a house that month - it was a small one, out by the beach, cost me $8,500.

    I'm sure there were other cost of living people that month and we were all somehow statistically merged into a single mythical proto-kiwi for that month but I've always liked to think that Muldoon somehow got a report on his desk that said that we were all suddenly spending our money opposing the tour and moving to shacks by the beach ....

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2606 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    I've happily made do without a TV since about 2004 - around the time my Internet hours surpassed my TV hours - and for good reasons countless to list here. I can safely say broadband & TV-on-demand are among the more major reasons.

    With the exception of TVNZ6 & 7, is the rest of TVNZ - specifically TV1 & TV2 - fubar? These noble fellas rightly thought so. The single biggest problem counting against them was the fact that most of them were over 55.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5416 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    It's always frustrating to watch something, knowing that they've cut a good number of minutes out in order to slot in more advertising, and that if you were watching the same program elsewhere in the world you'd see the entire thing.

    That doesn't happen as often as you might think -- more often it's for content. There's a hilarious extra on the DVD of Hot Fuzz, where they string together all the bizarre obscenity substitutes they were contractually obliged to deliver for the television/airline cut. Certainly more amusing than the buzzer of virtue.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • John Fouhy,

    Chalk me up as another who gave up telly around the turn of the decade. Although in my case, it's that watching tv was just too much effort. I have to arrange my schedule around the TV, _and_ manage the people I live with? Ugh. The internet is always there when I want it.

    But I do wonder about the effects of changing technology. I have access to free-to-air tv, through a tuner connected to a mac mini. And my dad, an electrical engineer who has worked in broadcasting, has so much tech surrounding his TV that he needs a wiring diagram to manage it. Many of my friends watch TV on DVDs exclusively, or supplemented by shows downloaded from the internet (because they will show here much later, or never). What would we do if the peoplemeter fairy came calling?

    Does anyone know what percentage of the various demographics actually watch broadcast TV?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 87 posts Report Reply

  • anth,

    According to the NZ Television Broadcaster's Council page on peoplemeters there are 500 households being measured with 1100 people.

    More importantly with respect to Stephen Judd's comment "Homes may remain on the panel for a maximum of 36 months", so there is at least some churn.

    Since Nov 2006 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Does anyone know what percentage of the various demographics actually watch broadcast TV?

    I believe it's most people at most age groups.

    I also recall research that suggested that most people watching shows on DVRs don't fast-forward through the ads.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3202 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Giovanni: Better still you could even go and watch Back Benches live at the Backbencher pub. A certain person in my house is really looking forward to it starting again so he can go and watch all the live action while carefully avoiding any camera coming anywhere near him. He tapes it and watches it again later so he can actually hear what was going on with the panel.

    Damian: What do people over 54 not count? They still buy stuff.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3196 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    I also recall research that suggested that most people watching shows on DVRs don't fast-forward through the ads

    <boggle> Buh? Whuh?

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Grant McDougall,

    ...As for the racks [the topless sunbathing story].. well some might be critical but 30,000 people have been back for a second look on our website.. go figure if it isn't what people want to watch....

    "Go figure" he says...well, I reckon it's pretty easy to figure out that at least 29,000 of that 30,000 will be teenage boys.

    Just because umpteen people have a look at some gratuitous story on a website doesn't mean that the show's going in the right direction.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2006 • 759 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    hip-hop vs hip-op

    Some of the assumptions really have not kept pace with demographic changes, have they.

    Numbers in 55+ age groups will grow much faster than younger age groups over the next two decades, presenting a larger target.

    55+ is a group with increasingly high disposable incomes underpinned by career earnings and tidy profits from our distorted housing market.

    They still buy stuff

    Boomer lifestyle aspirations mean eager buyers for all manner of personal activities and products (at the expense of inheritances).

    I believe older people are also more likely to carry on propping up existing media business models - like advertising-funded television and album music - far longer than their children and grandchildren will. No figures about that to hand though, and groups certainly influence one another's behaviour and options over time. Uncle Bert might just have to download single tracks, and the kids better get used to large print being standard.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19683 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia,

    I believe older people are also more likely to carry on propping up existing media business models - like advertising-funded television and album music - far longer than their children and grandchildren will

    I agree - I'm 63 and still like to turn on the telly and watch what's on offer (ONE) hoping there'll be something good and nearly always disappointed! I use TVondemand but old habits are hard to break and I would rather curl up on the sofa and watch the TV than sit at my computer. I go to bed early so late shows are out. I've forgotten how to connect and and programme our DVD recorder and have been too lazy to set it up since we moved.

    I could plug the laptop into the TV I guess but I haven't quite caught up with that technology.

    Therefore, to cut a long story short, people of my vintage should be in the ratings demographics ... especially for One.

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    I thought Damien's point was not that older people don't buy stuff, but that advertisers believe older people are not as susceptible to advertising.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    <boggle> Buh? Whuh?

    Okay, it wasn't most, but still... the Wired article.

    A quote:

    According to the study’s announcement, “Brasel and Gips found that people who fast forward through shows actually pay more attention to the screen than those who view at regular speed. That’s good news for advertisers, as long as their commercials feature their brands in the center of the screen.” According to the study, viewers pupils were dilated 99 percent during fast-forwarding ads as were are during the show, indicating that they pay nearly as much attention to fast-forwarding commercials as they do to the shows themselves. So as long as the branding is in the center of the screen, we retain it.

    And another:

    Lending credence to the idea that the DVR will not kill television advertising, as conventional wisdom suggested, a Nielsen study cited by the New York Times found that 46 percent of DVR viewers between the ages of 18 and 49 intentionally chose to watch advertisements rather than fast-forwarding through them.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3202 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    Just because umpteen people have a look at some gratuitous story on a website doesn't mean that the show's going in the right direction.

    But if the success of a show is measured solely by ratings - the number of eyeballs of a given age looking at it - then, by that measure, it is going in the right direction.
    This is the dichotomy faced by TV programmers, what people say they want to see on TV, and what they actually watch are not necessarily the same thing. When the market researchers call, not many people when asked "what do you want to see more of on TV?" will answer "boobs, big bouncy boobs". But when you look at the actual ratings, there's a decent sized chunk of the population that likes trash.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia,

    and they're not going to change their brand of toilet cleaner or refrigerator either, so don't bother advertising to them

    Hmmm. While I still haven't quite grasped the fact that TVNZ is probably never going to meet my viewing needs again, as a representative of the 54+ demographic, I dispute the above generalisation.

    Us boomers are not stay at home couch potatoes resistant to change and without desires!!!!

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    what people say they want to see on TV, and what they actually watch are not necessarily the same thing.

    Ae. Same as green consumer behaviour vs what we tell researchers. "Of course I'd pay a premium for organic veges. And I always catch the bus."

    older people are not as susceptible to advertising

    So how do they decide what to buy then? If it's a computer or mobile phone, they can hardly buy the same brand as their parents did. Same with avocados or pilates.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19683 posts Report Reply

  • Damian Christie,

    Right: A few answers.

    When does Backbenchers start again?

    Feb 17th I believe is our first Welly show back for the year. Please everyone come along, esp if you haven't before, Giovanni :)

    I thought Damien's point was not that older people don't buy stuff, but that advertisers believe older people are not as susceptible to advertising.

    My point is actually that advertisers don't want to advertise to older people generally, because they're old. They want to sell hip products to hip people, because that's cool and because they work in advertising, which is cool.

    I did a story about this when I was on Close Up (did I mention I'm a former reporter...), pointing out all these things - older people have far more money than younger people (generally), they have no mortgages, high disposable income which they want to waste on new shit and holidays and stuff for their grandkids. They are advertising gold but are largely ignored, other than ads like the acclaimed Dove campaign. And a great one Sony did about an older guy spending his kids inheritence (if that's how you want to view it) on a trip to Russia to take a rocket ship into space.

    There are specialist ad agencies set up (including one in Auckland) to cater to this market. But they're fighting an uphill battle because of the society we live in, which is all about what's new, what's cool, what's hip and young.

    So no, I was simply pointing out that no-one looks at that demographic, I wasn't judging people over the age of 54. And I bet if you all suddenly started watching C4 instead of ONE, someone would sit up and take notice. But it hasn't happened, and it probably won't.

    So yes, @Sacha - what you said :)

    As to who's watching?

    I believe it's most people at most age groups.

    Yeah probably, although if you add up all the numbers, especially during summer, as I said in a previous thread, it's 25-35% at any one time. But most of us flick on at some point I guess.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1164 posts Report Reply

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