Cracker: Smack Your Kids Up
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is it about actual onanism, as opposed to the verbal onanism they usually engage in?
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You have to face the horror sometime Merc.
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merc,
Trust me, I have, but it really got to me that blog, my wife was pretty much going into intervention mode, I started to see them walking round, I started to believe them at times (Stockholm syndrome?), I started to think that NZ was full of them (them, those that remain nameless, but now, not faceless). I'm OK now...sort of and I thank RB for redressing the balance and you for going down that tunnel everday, for all of us, like Frank Tuttle (Brazil, the movie).
Everday above ground is a good day. -
jebus merc, i've just had a look thinking i'd better not look while at work, and it's much, much worse than i thought.
i second your 3 cheers to RB, on behalf of all the Tuttles and Buttles. -
and actually, continuing the circle jerk theme, thanks sonic for taking the pain and baiting the fascisti, that kiwiblog Fight for the Right to Beat Your Kids March thread was really deeply funny and heartening in an otherwise unfunny and disheartening climate.
thank you very much -
For reference, to compare and contrast with the 'for' list in various places, here is Family First's list of organisation opposing the bill:
1. Family First NZ (Inc) 2. Sensible Sentencing Trust 3. For the Sake of our Children Trust 4. Grey Power 5. Te Whanau O Waipareira Trust 6. Lifespring Pasefika Trust 7. NZ Centre for Political Debate 8. Society for the Promotion of Community Standards (SPCS) 9. Family Life International 10. Kip McGrath Education Centres NZ 11. Focus on the Family NZ 12. Crosspower Ministries Otara 13. Samoa Community Council of Waitakere City 14. FamilyLife NZ 15. Vision Network 16. Affirming Works (AW) South Auckland 17. Parents Against Negative Intervention by CYFS (PANIC) 18. Families Apart Require Equality (FARE) 19. Pacific Resource Centre Dunedin 20. Drug Proofing Your Kids (DYPK) 21. West Health Fono Trust 22. Family Education Network 23. HandsonEqualParent Trust 24. Voice for Life 25. section59.org 26. Home Education Foundation 27. Affinity Child & Family Services 28. Children and Family Work 29. MOPS NZ [ Mothers of Preschoolers] 30. Drug-ARM Tauranga 31. Right to Life New Zealand Inc 32. Youthline Manukau 33. Drug Arm (Blenheim) Inc 34. Sowers Trust 35. Parents Against Bullying Support Group 36. Family Integrity 37. VOICE Hibiscus Coast 38. Family TV 39. VOICE Helensville 40. Courageous Women 41. Trinity Broadcasting Network South Pacific Ltd 42. Marriage Works 43. Franklin Christian Lobby 44. GCC Public Affairs Group 45. Promise Keepers NZ Ministry With Men Coaching 46. VOICE Waikato 47. Family Federation for World Peace and Unification 48. Family Ministries New Zealand (YWAM)
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actually, i've just got a corrected list that's only got 47 entries. see...
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0703/S00358.htmi haven't looked for who was the mistake...
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I was listening to "New Zealand's Rhema" yesterday morning, and, er, the breakfast announcer had his 12 year old coming in to beat him with various things, including jug cords. Tragically, I couldn't bear to stay listening to see how it turned out, but I'm kinda curious about what the hell they were up to.
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wow, what an impressive line-up of opponents to the bill, no comparison to those tinpot half-baked crackpots supporting it like:
UNICEF New Zealand, Save the Children, Barnardos NZ, Royal Plunket Society, Office of the Children's Commissioner, Families Commission, Jigsaw – Child Abuse Prevention (representing 14 member organisations), IHC, Amokura Family Violence Prevention (representing 7 iwi Chief Executives), Churches Agency on Social Issues (represents Presbyterian, Methodist, Quakers and Churches of Christ), NZ Council of Christian Social Services (represents 6 major church social agencies), National Council of Women New Zealand, NZ Federation of Business and Professional Women, National Network of Stopping Violence Services (33 members), Relationship Services NZ, Paediatric Society Of New Zealand, Action for Children and Youth Aotearoa, NZ Foster Care Federation
Women's Refuge (49 member refuges), NZ Psychotherapists Society
Parents Centre, NZ Psychological Society, NZ Child Care Association, NZ Playcentre Federation, NZ Federation of Graduate Women, CCS,
Brainwave Trust, Child Development Foundation, Pacific Foundation (founder Lesley Max), National Council for Young Catholics, Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom, ParentingWorks, Youth Law Project, Wellington Community Law Centre, NZ Association of Counsellors. -
Brief notes from the Section 59 protests at Parliament:
I don't think I saw a single 'pro-Bradford bill' marcher that was old enough to have children.
Someone from the 'anti-Bradford bill' brigade was too busy booing the government to notice that their infant had crawled into the middle of Parliaments driveway. A policeman rescued the child.
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There are a couple of surprising entries on the anti side of things, to me anyway...I mean, Kip McGrath? There must be more to them than the after school tutoring I guess.
Family First isn't quite so (obviously) innocent though, check out their principles of the family. Points 3,4,7 and 8 pretty clearly identify where their sympathies lie.
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pretty clearly identify where their sympathies lie
gosh, why they're fundamentalist androcentric 'right-to-lifers', well blow me down.
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Photos from the protest
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0703/S00507.htm
One chap with a sprog appears to be supporting the bill.attempted thunder stealing:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0703/S00378.htm
Celebrities palm-print banner supporting bill. Former mother of nation included. Also Deborah Coddington. Gosh. -
more - Brief notes from the Section 59 protests at Parliament
I observed some of the "anti B-B" people returing up Lambton Quay after the march and was particularly taken with the placards which read "resonable force is reasonable"
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The current bill allows any adult in charge of anyone under 16 to use "reasonable force" to correct their behaviour. So the dude who employs your kid at the takeaway can have a swing anytime he likes. Maybe that's why Kip McGrath opposes.
Imagine this. A dork from marketing school takes your company down the wrong path, costing millions, bankrupting you and disemploying 15 people. The law means you can't clip the 25 year old dickhead round the earhole. So why can we do it if a child bumps over some cans from the supermarket.
All the repeal of s59 does is give kids the same courtesy under law as adults. It does not ban smacking but it does give a defence against thrashings and beatings.
Adults currently seem able to swing at each other at rugby matches without the weight of the law coming down on them, so why should a smack, that does not cause physical damage but stings emotionally, be suddenly a prosecutable offence.
If the right to smack is so important to you then ritualise it. Just as society does. Try the kid. Hand down the sentence. Ttake them down and then administer the justice at a later date. It's how countries execute. It's how we obtain justice in a civil case. I tell you. Delay for 5 minutes and you will never brakk the law.
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Photos from the protest
ok this is a cheap shot but is there a "c" missing from Larry's surname' then we could have Bald C and Missing T.
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<quote>I observed some of the "anti B-B" people returing up Lambton Quay after the march and was particularly taken with the placards which read "resonable force is reasonable"/quote>
so taken with it that I got off my arse and went to the the repealsection59 website and made a submission to all MP's requesting their support for repealing the bill.
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I, also, made a submission on the repealsection59 website. NZ First seem to be split on their voting intentions so I only sent my submission to them. Here's the beginning of my submission as sent to Doug Woolerton among others:
Dear Doug,
I agree with the standard email drafted by repealsection59.org (see below). However, once you've read the first one you'll probably bin the rest so I want to add my own comments....
I then went on to comment in favour of Sue Bradford's Bill. Here's the reply from Woolerton's office.
Dear AdrianThank-you for your email, Mr Woolerton has received a barrage of
negative attention over this bill, and your support is welcomed.Regards
James Mist
Executive Secretary to
Doug Woolerton MP
New Zealand First
Ph - 04-470-6695
Fax - 04 499 0569
james.mist@parliament.govt.nzHere's my question: how much time should I waste contacting Mssrs. Woolerton and Mist to complain.
Actually, don't answer. I already know.
Incidentally, apropos not a lot, I interviewd Sue Bradford on many occasions while working on Big River FM (96.2 and 99.3: Northern Wairoa's local community radio station, the best in the west, etc.). I always found her to be hard-working, polite, passionate, humourous, approachable and (whisper it quietly) honest. She would never try to bullshit her way out of a question and would endeavour to find out more ready for the next interview.
Of course, the papers win whatever. What will the headline be in a few months time? "WOULD LITTLE BOY HAVE DIED IF BRADFORD BILL HAD PASSED" or "PARENTS IN COURT: THE TRUE FACE OF BRADFORD'S BILL".
Time to go. I'm feeling too cynical.
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the appalling misrepresentation of this issue to the general public by the msm is the real disgrace in all of this. (well, that and those who actually know better happily making political capital out of the children it's meant to help). i applaud those who have made an effort to contact MPs to make thier views known, but really i think their minds are pretty made up.
try writing letters to editors and encourage your favourite read to start telling the story properly instead of giving so much credence to the looney fundy fringe - it's no wonder so many peole are up in arms about this because most NZers still seem to think it's actually Anti-Smacking - wonder where they got that idea from?
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I suspect the whole thing isn't really about "reasonable force", but rather a battle front that has opened up in Der Kulturkrieg. And all diplomatic avenues are well and truly exhausted.
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