Cracker by Damian Christie

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Cracker: Titular Titilation

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  • Hilary Stace,

    I think we are just going through an anxious conservative time and that's why people are attracted in a nostalgic way to things from the past like knighthoods. Younger people probably also think that only people like Sir Ed and Colin Meads get them, when in reality it is much more likely to be rich businessmen who have contributed to the governing party rather than to anything that benefits ordinary people.

    As someone who is a reasonably regular nominator of worthy people for honours that do no carry a title, I do think they are important and the awards are noted by others in their sector. (I've also found you are more likely to have success in your nomination if there are several letters of support). The recipients are usually very pleased to be recognised by their peers but would be too embarrassed to get anything that made them stand out too much in egalitarian NZ.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3218 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    And I agree with several commentators that this move is just a PR smokescreen to deflect media and public attention from more unpopular political policies. Or lack of any action on jobs, the economy and climate change.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3218 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    If I were a betting man, I'd say Shipley and Brash would be in with a grin – maybe not this year, maybe that's too transparent even for a National Government still early enough in its term not to give a fuck about public perception.

    Only an idiot would bet against you on the former - Labour gave Jenny Shipley a DCNZM just after they dropped the DNZM that would have seen a Dame Jennifer.

    Was this deliberately ironic? See ... here's why we need titular honours ... nobody even knows Labour thought Jenny Shipley good enough to get one :-)

    Less than 1 in 100 could rank the New Zealand honours, I'd wager that it was a similar amount who could rank the Order of the British Empire that proceeded it. Even fewer would have known that people who were knighted didn't get KBEs, but were usually Knight Bachelors, while those made Dames did get DBEs. The media all but always referred to someone made an OBE as receiving the Order of the British Empire, and an MBE as a Member of the British Empire. And that's ignoring all the other orders to which people could be inducted.

    I'd say the main problem with public knowledge over our honours is that when we New Zealandised them, we went for a standard 5 level order of chivaly, and kept the Order of New Zealand. If we'd gone with a single order, referred to everyone who got it as receiving the Order of New Zealand (even if they were at different level) and wrote those letters after their names every time they appeared on TV or in print, people would have a better understanding.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3207 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    very pleased to be recognised by their peers but would be too embarrassed to get anything that made them stand out too much

    Hilary, that's no doubt true of community-oriented recipients. Thrusting status seekers, on the other hand..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19729 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    *sigh* One day the settler class in this country will wake up and realise they've stopped being anxious colonists in a foreign land. God knows when that'll be though.

    Probably sometime after their grandparents used the gutted RMA to chop down the last Pohutukawa blocking the last unimpeded view from their pink McMansion in the last undeveloped beacj in New Zealand.

    Its at moments like these when i understand some of the little puzzles, things like why Maori T.V. is the only station that seems to actually of this place (rather than a clone of some local station in the U.S. Mid-West) or why so many businessmen don't seem to give a fuck about the country's future. It is because so many Europeans still don't get it about there home is, and it is because many of our businessmen actually DON'T give a fuck about the future of New Zealand.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Let's knight the Maori TV guys! Smokescreen? Yeah, but I'm looking forward to seeing Sir Peter Jackson on the world stage.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Actually in my pretend future it’s ‘Lord Christie’, but I’m not sure how that relates to whether or not we have a titular honours system in New Zealand

    I think some sort of military honorific - Field Commander Christie, or possibly Rear Admiral Christie - is more probable.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Kerry Weston,

    Whenever I see the anti-drinking ads on TV I remember that some govt made beer baron Mr Myers, Sir Douglas. Just can't get my head around the hypocrisy.

    Manawatu • Since Jan 2008 • 494 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson,

    Helen Clark is likely to be offered a title before Don Brash.

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    I think some sort of military honorific - Field Commander Christie, or possibly Rear Admiral Christie - is more probable.

    Vice Admiral, as is traditional for dangers to shipping.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    Jim Anderton tried to table this in Parliament, and I couldn't resist following it up:

    A. R. D. Fairburn: Roll Out the Knightcart

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1115 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    Admiral of Vice?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1115 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Would Clark accept a damehood? Oh wait, it was Bolger who got rid of them wasn't it?

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Rear Admiral of Vice.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    Vice Admiral, as is traditional for dangers to shipping.

    Well played!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson,

    Admiral of Rare Vice

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Heather W.,

    Don McKinnon recently got his knighthood from the Queen. So his notepaper can now apparently be headed "The Right Honourable Sir Donald Charles McKinnon ONZ GCVO".

    So maybe the dream could come true.

    North Shore • Since Nov 2008 • 189 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    *sigh* One day the settler class in this country will wake up and realise they've stopped being anxious colonists in a foreign land. God knows when that'll be though.

    What Tom said. I'm sorry to see them restored. I know Graeme's right that people don't yet know what our own honours meant and that is a failing, but it was remedial. Titular honours are long gone from Australia, the only country to have voted for the Queen in modern history (thanks John, you f**k), and everyone knows what an AM and OAM are...

    I doubt Helen would accept a titular honour. My memory is that Lange didn't, though he could've, and James Brendan Bolger most certainly won't lest his Irish cousins sort him out (as well they should).

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Oh and apropos nothing in particular, the White Ferns are back on top of the South Africans after a shaky start. Currently, 77 for 2 after eighteen overs. Amy Satterthwaite is 58 from 56 and looking good to better her high score of 67.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    should that have been "remediable"? C'mon PASers... you know you want to...

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    it seemed nine out of the ten people were in favour of the move.

    Follow-up questions: Who is New Zealand's head of state?

    And (if part one is answered correctly) will you swear loyalty to King Charles?

    Whereupon nine out of ten turn out to be very confused.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1330 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Would Clark accept a damehood? Oh wait, it was Bolger who got rid of them wasn't it?

    It was not.

    Bolger got rid of New Zealand appointments to the Order of the British Empire, the Order of St Michael and St George, The Order of the Bath, Companion of Honour, and the distinction of Knight Bachelor, but replaced them with the New Zealand Order of Merit, the top two ranks of which included an indigenous knighthood.

    I doubt Helen would accept a titular honour. My memory is that Lange didn't, though he could've, and James Brendan Bolger most certainly won't lest his Irish cousins sort him out (as well they should).

    I believe Bolger declined. Which may be why he got an ONZ.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3207 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Ta Graeme.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Mike Graham,

    The main thing that bugs me about the titular system is that a successful businessman will get a knighthood for services to xyz industry, although really all they've been doing is their job. However, someone who spends most of their "spare" time working in the community for little or no financial reward will simply get 3 letters after their name.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    Why anyone would like to join a club that includes Michael Fay and Roger Douglas is beyond me.

    And I'm not sure why we need to reinstate an antiquated system that has its origins in the medieval era. What's next? Burning witches? (Oops, better not go giving the Act Party ideas...)

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

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