Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: A revolting piece of shit

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  • Jeremy Eade,

    That video is so pointless.Everyone involved in it needs to fucking get right in the head about their sisters and violence.

    Some people would spraypaint their own turds to sell records

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I'm sure Dirty Sesh is a dick. Gangsta rappers tend to be, when they aren't just totally risible figures of fun. But I don't like censorship, and given that (presumably) the actors in the vid were consenting grownups and no kittens were harmed in the making, etc. then suppressing this vid would be censorship.

    Who's "suppressing" anything? I'm saying that the record company should withdraw it because it's an offensive piece of shit. That's my opinion.

    Although it seems now that Mike King actually had a lot more to do with this clip than Move The Crowd did.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22807 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Of course ;-)

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2557 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Some people would spraypaint their own turds to sell records

    And some people will buy them. Out of curiosity I checked out the video on Youtube and managed about 30 seconds before regreting it, I will never get that 30 seconds back. I wasted a few more minutes reading the comments.... sheesh.
    Ignorance is bad enough but taking pride in that ignorance is truly mind numbing. Then there's the spelling and grammar, geez it's enough to make you agree with Anne Tolley, well, it's not but you know what I mean.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Ignorance is bad enough but taking pride in that ignorance is truly mind numbing.

    I've been waiting for the right lead in to this:

    I'm totally ignorant, by choice, of this particular video and song. Is that better than watching it and being disgusted? I took the same attitude regarding the Kurariki case.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I don't know - I watched yesterday and I wish that Russell had got to it first so I didn't have to.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    In the interest of full disclosure, however, I did find the second half of Studio 60 indescribably creepy.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    I'm totally ignorant, by choice, of this particular video and song. Is that better than watching it and being disgusted?

    Haven't seen it either, but I think in a world where so much revolting shit simply can't be avoided, we're entitled from time to time to trust PAS' collective opinion and dodge the avoidable turds.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    We already censor some stuff because its harms are generally agreed to outweigh any benefits

    I know that's the law but disagree with the principle. Censorship should be confined to works where someone was actually abused in making the piece.

    Of course Russell is free to block anything from his site on aesthetic or any other grounds. It's his site. Same with the record company.

    That video, however, has been referred to the censor. If they decide we can't see it, then it becomes an actual crime to watch it and (although they deny this) it might get blocked by the Great Firewall Of New Zealand.

    That's what I object to. Adults should be able (subject to the obvious caveat above) to choose what they watch, hear and read.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    I think Lady Gaga's doing a bit more than getting her tits out. She's much more interesting than that.

    Ooh, spill! In particular, what is she doing that is more interesting than what Madonna was doing (omg) 20 years ago?

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1472 posts Report Reply

  • HORansome,

    Let me step in and answer Ben:

    If you pass comment on the material without knowing what the material is, then, yes, such ignorance is bad. If, on the other hand, you decide to not just ignore the material but also not pass comment on it, then your ignorance of the material really is fine/immaterial.

    The worry, I think, is about people who condemn or praise something without actually knowing firsthand what they are condemning or praising.

    (It's slightly tricky, of course; you might be able to claim, for example, that your trust in person X's judgement is so reliable that you can legitimately inherit their praising or condemning stance, but, even then, you will always leave yourself open to the argument that you could do one better and still examine the matter personally.)

    Tāmaki Makaurau • Since Sep 2008 • 441 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    if he hadn't brought it up.

    But Russell didn’t in the first place, and having watched the whole clip I'm grateful he removed it. After considering what has been said already – and what hasn’t - I just don’t feel comfortable letting this pass without comment.

    First, I agree with Sandra at LudditeJourno’s assessment :

    The vicious misogyny of this video is staggering

    It's the nastiest piece of shit I've ever seen (not that I seek out woman-hating garbage or bad examples of this musical style when there are so many good ones). Here’s my main concern though:

    just couldn't get the lolz

    Real funny, Robbie. There’s a bigger story about gender, violence and ethnicity - and it is not arms-length for us here. Please remember that Robbie knew why this clip was controversial and deliberately chose to place it immediately after his words about the young female journalists:

    i guess the final irony is, the anonymous 'victims' original intent for the story was to get an opinion from Bailey regarding his last incarceration, with the end result being they are now culpable in the charges that will probably see him getting jailed again.

    where's the justice ?... maybe karma will sort them out.

    Consider that last phrase. This is no accident, and quite in keeping with previous misogynist garbage about Kurariki. Sure there are a range of social and structural issues around gendered violence, justice and the place of young men, including polynesian young men.

    But at a personal level I’m not sure why you haven’t been set right by some older men you respect, Robbie. You need to know it’s time to grow up. Real men don’t spread shit like this - it's not a game, and you're not some big-talking hero of the streets. Real people get hurt when attitudes like this are promoted as OK. They’re not.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • HORansome,

    Ah, but Rich, if you're concerned with the Harm Principle then you can't really just say:

    Censorship should be confined to works where someone was actually abused in making the piece.

    because we are, surely, concerned with cases where the work will certainly (or almost certainly) lead to someone being abused now or in the future.

    Now, there's a slippery slope there, I realise, but limiting censorship to past injustices and not factoring in the very real possibility of a work leading to an injustice now is, I think, a problem for any society that believes itself to be civilised.

    Tāmaki Makaurau • Since Sep 2008 • 441 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    And that wasn't Julie Bindel doing handsprings over Iceland's strip club ban, it was me. I'm agnostic on the subject of sex work as feminist praxis, but deeply intrigued to see a country try to make national policy around a point of feminist principle (yes, yes, for one definition of "feminist," and not one universally understood as such - but bear with me for a moment).

    It's a thought experiment in the flesh, as it were. What I'm wondering is: who will miss the clubs, and will they miss them badly enough to do something about it? If so, what? In other words, if you were starting from a neutral position, would you always and everywhere evolve a culture in which the primary vector of casual cash-based sexual commerce was the ritualised display of female body parts? Or might you wind up with something different?

    Iceland is not a blank slate, by any means, but it's at least experimenting with the possibility of being one, and I kind of like that. As far as I can see, no-one's getting hurt so far. I think we should watch this space and not be all pre-judgey about what it means and where it could go.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1472 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    pre-judgey

    pantaloons?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    The violence problems of NZ society aren't caused by media and won't be solved by censorship.

    They're about a tacit assumption that if someone annoys you enough, you're entitled to give them the bash. Like Sione Lauaki, on his third violence conviction and still playing for Waikato.

    I think it's mainstream NZ, not rappers making vids, that has the problem.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Carol Stewart,

    I'm totally ignorant, by choice, of this particular video and song. Is that better than watching it and being disgusted?

    Let me put it this way: I felt less nauseated looking at the pretreatment step screens at the Moa Point sewage treatment plant than at this particular video.
    Russell's title for this post is very apposite.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 824 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    pantaloons?

    Knickerbockers. Or perhaps bloomers?

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1472 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    I want to second Giovanni's recommendation of One Dimensional Woman too (and not just because he kindly supplied me with my copy -- grazie, comrade). Read it, if for nothing else, for the exhortative chapter title Socialism Must Not Exclude Human Sensual Pleasure from its Program! which I immediately wanted to screen-print as a propaganda poster, except I couldn't settle on the perfect image to go with it.

    Also, it's a very quick and provocative introduction to a number of questions and distractions floating around at the moment, all coalescing around the "problem" of feminism.

    It also includes an excellent excerpt from an interview with Toni Morrison on the subject of teen pregnancies and "unwed mothers," that belongs over on Emma's thread.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1472 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    The violence problems of NZ society aren't caused by media

    Not alone, no. However if media didn't influence behaviour, do you really think advertisers would pay for a place in it?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    I'm totally ignorant, by choice, of this particular video and song. Is that better than watching it and being disgusted? I took the same attitude regarding the Kurariki case.

    Yes Ben, I was not ignorant of that fact.
    However, the point I was making was that although ignorance may be bliss it is not a good foundation for criticism or debate. I am sure you would be the last person to argue or judge from that position, unlike those on that particular forum.
    Ignorance can also stem from a blind adherence to a belief without evidence, like many of those opposed to the US health reforms who argue from a position of ignorance of facts but with a richness of opinion.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    I saw a few clips from the video via a 3 News story online. Not keen in the slightest to see more. That's all I have to say at this point.

    Glad I didn't click through when Robbie S first posted it, particularly given its repulsive place in that post. "Karma"?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    It's a thought experiment in the flesh, as it were.

    My reading of the point of the legislation was that it was targetted more specifically at a certain kind of people trafficking that was supplying overseas dancers to the strip joints than as a general feminist policy opposed to the nature of stripping, although it's definitely been positioned as such in the discussion around the law.

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    "I think it's mainstream NZ, not rappers making vids, that has the problem."

    Or, is the problem: there is a long history of violence in ANZ (it becomes evident from the late 16th century onwards.) And after the second wave of settlers arrived, it was compounded. Not only humans were involved: there was considerable cruelty to other animals (which continues to this day.)

    It is only recently (within my lifespan to date) that there have been mainstream movements against violence & cruelty, whether to children, women, mentally-ill people, prisoners or all the others- to wit,non-human animals.

    Attitudes are changing, but 'rappers making vids', especially misogynistic violent ones, are part of the problem - 'haha" & "lolz "are sick responses.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I think it's mainstream NZ, not rappers making vids, that has the problem.

    Good old "mainstream New Zealand". Why make a specific criticism of a particular work when you can just blame the faceless masses for everything?

    Anyway, I think on the evidence, "mainstream New Zealand" has been making fairly good progress on attitudes towards violence against women. I don't this this video helps that.

    That video, however, has been referred to the censor. If they decide we can't see it, then it becomes an actual crime to watch it and (although they deny this) it might get blocked by the Great Firewall Of New Zealand.

    Not as things stand. That only blocks child sex imagery, although the video might fall under the definition of "Objectionable" in the Films, Videos and Publications Act.

    The Act is -- correctly, in my view -- permissive; far more so than the Broadcasting Standards are. Its practical application is even more light-handed -- the DIA concentrates almost exclusively on child pornography. (OTOH, I think that without any doubt, a video game with the same content would be refused classification in New Zealand.)

    That's what I object to. Adults should be able (subject to the obvious caveat above) to choose what they watch, hear and read.

    And yet there's still no age restriction on the clip on YouTube, and even if there was, that's trivially easy to get around. It's made for a youth market. Does that not trouble you at all?

    Anyway, I remain of the view that MTC needs to deal with this sooner rather than later.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22807 posts Report Reply

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