Hard News: About Arie
646 Responses
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
There are no circumstance where, if Arie was beaten by a police officer and that act means the end of that officer’s career, that such a loss of job would be unjust.
You are so certain. More certain than I could ever be I'm sorry.
Of course we demand our police perform to a standard most of us could not hope to maintain. Of course if an officer caused those injuries they will lose their job. But one blow could cause that black eye, one strike, one moment where the strain of the past couple of days caused a loss of control.
I don't know what happened. I'm not excusing police brutality. I'm demanding an investigation.
But I won't condemn yet, and I believe it is possible that an otherwise good person struck once, and that they will lose their job for that would IMO be unjust.
People rushed to condemn Aire, so certain that all looters are scum ...
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James Butler, in reply to
It appears that, still, no one has had the nerve to ask who beat him.
please god, let it be Collins herself.
She'll need to know so she can hand them a commendation. </snark>
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Che Tibby, in reply to
Foreign police officers have left their families to volunteer to come to Christchurch to support.
OIC. Aussie police. that makes all the sense in the world.
personal experience tell me those people actually are thugs.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
No, I don't think I am. I am making a separate claim than the one that the institutions are inherently violent.
What claim is it? Other than basically saying that liberals who may feel some outrage at what is likely to have happened here are raging hypocrites? I don't think there is room for that kind of glibness in this story, to be entirely honest.
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Whoops. Turned a page at an unfortunate time there.
Just to reiterate the key point of the message from Arie’s lawyer on the previous page: it looks like an assault by police officers on Arie will be acknowledged and investigated.
But they were NOT New Zealand police officers.
Edit: Lew Stoddart has pointed out on Twitter that the Australia police who came here were sworn in as NZ officers. So technically, they are NZ cops.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
But I can still be angry at Michael Laws, right?
If you weren't permanently, I'd be most severely displeased.
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Sue,
still at no point in the system did anyone ask about his health, and question his behaviour. I'm reasonably sure the entire system was not filled with overseas police officers.
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Berry Binnie, in reply to
Jeez............
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One hopes that this/these particular NOT New Zealand Police Officers are no longer in New Zealand at the very least.
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But they were NOT New Zealand police officers.
So it looks like, as Danyl pointed out, that they were playing good cop, Australian cop.
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assuming it was an aussie cop, here’s an indication of what they can be like.
in melbourne, a friend’s girlfriend gave a flatmate a dressing down (long story, no-one was in the right). the flatmate phoned his dad, a 20-year NSW policeman, who drove down from sydney, smashed his way through a locked door and assaulted my friend. he made demands to “go get the bitch so we can sort her out” (she’d bolted when the cop broke into the house).
this included threats to “put him in a hole in the ground”, and “throw him in the slammer to be raped” when friend wouldn’t go find her.
melbourne police refused to press charges, dismissing the incident and my friend’s testimony as “unlikely”. they also destroyed all records.
here’s hoping none of these guys were sworn here, aeh?
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
here’s hoping none of these guys were sworn here, aeh?
Of course they were.
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Andre Alessi, in reply to
But I can still be angry at Michael Laws, right?
Is there ever a time not to be angry at Lhaws?
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
technically, they are NZ cops.
That's pretty arguable. Being sworn to the office of constable doesn't make them NZ cops, it gives them the powers of NZ cops. They're still employed by their various parent police forces in Australia.
Otherwise the various special constables within the NZ legal landscape, such as Fire Police, are also "NZ cops" since they have all the legal status of a constable when acting in their official capacity.
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The Minister of Police, explicitly soliciting violence, possibly rape
Late to this one, sorry. I remember hearing some time back Mark Bennett on Radio Pacific making much the same comment regarding some equally (relatively) trivial offence - sort 'em out in jail, let him be someone's girlfriend inside etc.
I would never normally bother, but in this case I wrote in and pointed out what he was saying - suggesting violent rape was a fitting punishment.
I wonder - and this is certainly not to excuse a Minister of the Crown who should always be held to a higher standard in her public comments - whether this concept is really just a form of shorthand - "they'll get theirs", or perhaps "karma, dude" - and if reminded of what they're actually suggesting, they suddenly realise how ridiculous it is.
(Much like the arguments I had with many who suggested that stabbing to death was a suitable punishment for tagging... Um, are you sure? How about just think that through for a minute...)
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
here’s hoping none of these guys were sworn here, aeh?
Of course they were.
Exactly. They were brought here to supplement the NZ Police resources available, so being sworn to give them the powers and protections of constables is entirely appropriate.
Of course they also brought the particular systemic dysfunctions that pervade their parent society, which includes corruption and brutality on a scale to make even Clint Rickards look like a saint. It's fortunate that, the AOS notwithstanding, we don't have armed cops patrolling Christchurch. If nzlemming finds Kiwi cops with guns scary, I hate to think what they'd make of armed Aussie cops on NZ streets.
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Idiot Savant, in reply to
Just to reiterate the key point of the message from Arie’s lawyer on the previous page: it looks like an assault by police officers on Arie will be acknowledged and investigated.
Good. I expect the NZ police to have zero tolerance for this sort of shit. I am glad they are meeting that expectation.
But they were NOT New Zealand police officers.
Also good. But its going to mean a more dificult investigation, and the need for extradition if a case can be made.
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Idiot Savant, in reply to
Demanding prosecutions is prejudging the outcome of the investigation as determining who committed the assault with sufficient certainty to support such a prosecution. Which is a dangerous leap to make, since it leads one to conclude that the only possible explanation for there being no forthcoming prosecution is the Police covering for their own.
Or that they're incompetant. Neither is acceptable.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Just to reiterate the key point of the message from Arie’s lawyer on the previous page: it looks like an assault by police officers on Arie will be acknowledged and investigated.
But they were NOT New Zealand police officers.
Would that make it a diplomatic incident, then?
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Aussie cops bought into NZ allegedly beating a young man with Aspergers for acting out his obsession is surely a huge story, but I guess it goes against the narrative huh?
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Che Tibby, in reply to
I guess it goes against the narrative huh?
indeed. these men are HEROES!! heroes i say!!1!
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
Or that they’re incompetant. Neither is acceptable.
Or there's insufficient solid evidence to support prosecution. Which speaks not at all to the competence of the investigator(s), and everything to preserving the integrity of concepts such as due process and rule of law.
But that wouldn't support your narrative that only a prosecution is an acceptable outcome. -
Scott A, in reply to
Would that make it a diplomatic incident, then?
They're cops, not diplomats. And, in the terms of the broader New Zealand - Australian relationship narrative, hardly one to go withdrawing embassies over.
But we really do need some MSM to pick up on this part of the story, ASAP, so that it doesn't just disappear.. I'd also be sure the overseas officers involved will be slipped out of the country as soon as possible, time is of the essence here to get a strong light shone on this assault. Left too much longer then all we'll end up with that the "the investigation into this regrettable incident has met a dead-end due to uncertainty who the officers involved were as they have left the country."
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Gareth Ward, in reply to
indeed. these men are HEROES!! heroes i say!!1!
Yes, sir. Whatever you say sir. No sir, you can put the telephone book away sir.
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Idiot Savant, in reply to
Or there's insufficient solid evidence to support prosecution. Which speaks not at all to the competence of the investigator(s)
I expect the police to find that solid evidence. It is, to put it bluntly, their fucking job.
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