Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: "Creative" and "Flexible"

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  • bob daktari,

    I enjoy both stations and would not like to see either go... however be it 30 million or 38 million to run - thats a lot of money considering how cheaply everyone else in this country "makes radio"

    I am firmly of the belief that state owned braodcasters have a very important role to serve in our communities but as already said thats a whole bunch of money and we're not as wealthy as we'd like to think we are

    auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 531 posts Report Reply

  • Jonty,

    Sacha: <I'd be happy to see money redirected to support music about and of this place, not by long-dead white Europeans whose local audience are amongst our most wealthy - and the most accustomed to subsidy it seems.>

    Someone may have already taken you to task about this comment, I haven't yet read all posts -- but I think you are wrong to assume that a love of classical music resides mainly among the wealthy. I know people of all walks of life who love it and play it regularly. In fact it's been my experience on occasional (but rare) visits to the homes of the wealthy that their taste can often be described as crass and what items are of interest have often been the choice of an interior decorator.

    Katikati • Since Mar 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • jeremy gray,

    I think Concert FM is pretty clearly a public good. It may rile up some people on the left for being culturally imperious or whatever, but the cost of $5 million Russell mentioned earlier is pretty cheap.

    In an ideal world it would be more inclusive and have more genres, but to suggest cutting it because it only represents one culture is cutting off your nose to spite your face. If the $5 million is such a priority, there are surely better places to cut it from.

    point chev • Since Apr 2008 • 44 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    The wonderful ploy of "asking" government orgs to "rationalise" their assets so that it "frees up" a few buckaroos has a tendency to minimise the year's deficit. It is shortsighted. And it is such an easy bullet to insist the org shoots themselves with. And it will guarantee media headlines and political brownie points for your mates.

    Yes, it may decrease the deficit. Yes it may give you a few dollars to spend. But after a year or two when the lease needs renewing..... Surprise! The rent increases and the upshot is more outgoings to cover.

    The loss of ownership (much like selling the house for one of those "no-need-to-payback-until-you-are-(nearly)-dead-mortgages") means a life of forever catching up.

    So yes, RNZ can sell a few money making transmission sites and then...well....who wouldn't put the rent up?

    Yes, DOC can sell a few more concessions. Privatise a few bush huts. Maybe even sell a Nat Park or two that they could then lease back. Such a wonderful idea putting a dollar value on such an asset isn't it.

    How the hell do you "value" such an item? How can you put a "worth" to it?

    It is obscene.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1582 posts Report Reply

  • James Littlewood*,

    It is obscene.

    Actually, what I found obscene was Garth George on The Panel, referring to entire sectors of New Zealand's population as "a pack of wankers."

    But I'll defend to the very end his right to do it.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 398 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    But I'll defend to the very end his right to do it.

    What, wank?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Mikaere Curtis,

    In an ideal world it would be more inclusive and have more genres, but to suggest cutting it because it only represents one culture is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    I didn't suggest cutting it, I said it was difficult to make a case for it from a public good perspective, and I pointed out that there is probably room in the market for a (likely mainstream) classical music station. And I meant that as it currently stands - if we had a Concert FM that was truly representative of our bi-cultural and multi-ethnic society, then yeah, the public good argument would be rock solid.

    As it stands, Concert FM could be seen as being elitist (albeit with token concessions to other music genres), and is that really what we want ?

    You owe me a desk.

    Maybe so, but your point is ?

    Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 522 posts Report Reply

  • Alien Lizard (anag),

    Let's make everybody happy...
    I Scream for Classical music:
    Tip Top sounds on the Cone-cert Programme

    The Arrrgh Complex • Since Jan 2010 • 158 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    if Concert goes down, you'll be stuck with the Four Seasons and the Flight of the Damn Bumblebee on endless rotate on ClassicalGasFM.

    So now there seems to be a consensual fantasy in which Concert FM is the only way people can listen to classical music. As has been pointed out, you can buy it if it's that important. If you don't have the cash you can listen to it for free on the internet. If you don't have the internet you can borrow it from the library.

    Seriously, if you insist to compare the music broadcast by RNZ Concert to ice creams than I'm going to go ahead and suggest that maybe it's you, you know.

    I'm going to go ahead and suggest that you find this argument infuriating because you can't actually answer it. It's a valid analogy. Obviously music and ice-cream aren't the same thing - that's why it's an analogy! But if we can have a taxpayer funded classical music station because people like it and they (supposedly) can't hear the music any other way then why not taxpayer funded free ice-cream?

    Can't the same arguments be made in favor of it? The free ice-cream provides many flavors, whereas the market only a small handful, poor people cannot afford their own ice-cream and unless the taxpayer provides it for free they'll go without, it doesn't cost that much, it's barbaric to scrap it, etc.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Yes, but the analogy falls down because it is pretty well universally accepted that it is barbaric not to support the arts.

    So you miss an important part of the nature of art in your analogy.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I'm going to go ahead and suggest that you find this argument infuriating because you can't actually answer it

    Myself and others have been answering every which way we know for the last several hours. You just don't seem to be interested in any of the answers. Fair enough, but you could stop claiming we can't or won't answer?

    Can't the same arguments be made in favor of [free ice-cream]?

    No. Because it's a... what the word I'm looking for? Stupid analogy.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Maybe so, but your point is ?

    My point is that I'm really sorry that Beethoven was German, and that he wrote pieces that go on a bit and are difficult to interrupt with ads. All the same, classical music, even in its narrowest definition, is appreciated by a lot of cultures beside the European ones, and perhaps there's a reason for that beyond imperialism alone. Besides the obvious fact that European music is part of the New Zealand cultural heritage, so perhaps it is be worth funding a radio station that allows people up and down the country to hear it. And it is a popular station, isn't it? So what exactly is the problem?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Andy Milne,

    Stupid analogy

    that's two words Gio.

    Sorry, getting my coat now...

    Christchurch • Since Aug 2007 • 58 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    Danyl, point me towards Mahler's 8th on the internet (in full, for free) and I'll buy you an ice cream.

    So now there seems to be a consensual fantasy in which Concert FM is the only way people can listen to classical music.

    It's not a consensual fantasy, it was my childhood, except that my dad also had a few records and occasionally took me to a concert.

    As has been pointed out, you can buy it if it's that important. If you don't have the cash you can listen to it for free on the internet. If you don't have the internet you can borrow it from the library.

    I have this weird consensual fantasy about street-lights, libraries, earthquake warning devices, the National Poisons Centre, and kakapo breeding programmes too, except that now you mention it, not everybody uses them all the time and we could just buy our own if it's that important.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1471 posts Report Reply

  • Alien Lizard (anag),

    Fine tuning...
    Your Public Radio Stationery
    presents the Office Max
    Head-Desk concerto
    the Paino

    ----

    one wonders if they are trying to clear the airways
    to accommodate all these wireless Rifid chips
    that will be omnipresent soon...
    (or is that the analogue TV bandwidth they'll
    use for that?)

    The Arrrgh Complex • Since Jan 2010 • 158 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    Mikaere, point taken, and yet:

    And I meant that as it currently stands - if we had a Concert FM that was truly representative of our bi-cultural and multi-ethnic society, then yeah, the public good argument would be rock solid.

    D'you reckon shutting Concert FM down altogether would get us there faster than lobbying for more funding and more diverse programming on the station as it currently stands? Or lobbying for a third state-funded station with a kaupapa that's more contemporary/ urban/ diverse/ explicitly or exclusively NZ-focused? And a fourth station that brings the best of the world's news and culture radio to our airwaves, for those who aren't lucky enough to have iPods?

    If Concert isn't (good) enough, then why aren't we asking for more, instead of defending or dismantling the apparently insufficient?

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1471 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    Y'know, Danyl, your analogy may actually be sharper than you think. Once upon a time, the government did distribute free ice-cream, or near enough. It was stopped, not because it was not a good idea, but because it was deemed too expensive.

    Might be an idea worth reviving (with adequate refrigeration, and with non-dairy options for those who are lactose intolerant), given the number of kids who come to school without breakfast and struggle through the morning on zero fuel. That's a national standard I could get behind.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1471 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Interesting and often persuasive discussion. I can feel myself wavering... (my, that sounds dodgy!)

    Just one request--can we abandon the head-on-desk metaphor, in favour of something else? It is getting..umm..a little wooden.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2499 posts Report Reply

  • Mikaere Curtis,

    Besides the obvious fact that European music is part of the New Zealand cultural heritage, so perhaps it is be worth funding a radio station that allows people up and down the country to hear it. And it is a popular station, isn't it? So what exactly is the problem?

    Look, I'm not disqualifying European music as being appropriate to Concert FM. I am questioning why Concert FM has to be almost exclusively Eurocentric in content.

    As you say, it's popular: so why not let the market pander to this popularity and let Concert FM spend the limited funds it has on things that the market won't actually deliver ? Such as traditional Maori music, which is also "part of the New Zealand cultural heritage, so perhaps it is be worth funding a radio station that allows people up and down the country to hear it."

    Fortunately, I can guess the answer: You prefer your classical without ads.

    Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 522 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    As has been pointed out, you can buy it if it's that important. If you don't have the cash you can listen to it for free on the internet. If you don't have the internet you can borrow it from the library.

    These things do not equate to a radio station. They just *don't*. For starters, half the interest in Concert FM is the little pre-piece spiel about who wrote it and when and why; you don't get that on a CD. If those things were replacements for radio, radio would have died with the Walkman. But they're not.

    If Concert isn't (good) enough, then why aren't we asking for more, instead of defending or dismantling the apparently insufficient?

    Because that would be, what's the word...constructive?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Sometimes it's like liberals seem bent on doing the work of the Right for them.

    And everything else Giovanni said too. It's about values and principles, not about whether a thin wedge here or there is OK because I personally don't need/use it.

    When my son was about 4 or 5 a special interest for many months was the concert programme (before FM) which made him happy and calm. I'm sure it has a similar affect on many citizens.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3107 posts Report Reply

  • tim kong,

    Can I just mention the other bit of Russell's post, and say it was a privilege to be at the ONYA's - and to help put together the finishing piece with darkroom and module.

    Lots of creative people doing cool stuff in the online space - deserve to be honoured, and it was nice to take a break from the day job to help do that, with some mega sized, 3d-mapped visuals. The old organ has never looked so good imho. :)

    back to the regular programming ...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Such as traditional Maori music, which is also "part of the New Zealand cultural heritage, so perhaps it is be worth funding a radio station that allows people up and down the country to hear it."

    Fortunately, I can guess the answer: You prefer your classical without ads.

    Besides the work that the publicly funded Maori TV is doing in making indigenous folk music available on the public airwaves, it's ridicolous to think that you can have one or the other. And besides, our music schools are full of talented Maori and Pasifika performers of evil European orchestral music. Do they not count?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    As you say, it's popular: so why not let the market pander to this popularity and let Concert FM spend the limited funds it has on things that the market won't actually deliver ? Such as traditional Maori music, which is also "part of the New Zealand cultural heritage, so perhaps it is be worth funding a radio station that allows people up and down the country to hear it."

    This bears no relation to reality whatsoever. You can have Concert FM, or you can have a crappier version. Possibly if you have a good Concert FM it can be improved in the future. But you aren't being offered that traditional Maori music option instead. It isn't on the table.

    There's something important about the perfect: it shouldn't be the enemy of the good.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    I'm sure it has a similar affect on many citizens.

    Including those who find themselves on a ledge in the middle of the night.

    MIkaere is right to question the shape and colour of the local content (above and beyond the daily "Made in NZ" hour). It does seem that Maori and Pasifika music most often finds its way to National Radio, for some reason, and then for only half an hour at a time. On the other hand, without Concert funding, we wouldn't have this taonga.

    Again, the answer is more, not less - and more ownership of the question. I am getting to hate this analogy, but if we torch the ice cream van (or stand around while it's torched), then how on earth can we argue for a wider range of healthy and delicious brain-food?

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1471 posts Report Reply

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