Hard News: "Creative" and "Flexible"
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But this is a few hours a week - the rest of the 168 hours is exclusively dedicated to orchestral and concert music.
The only argument for the state obliging itself to own and fund Concert FM is that it's 1) worth having, and 2) isn't going to exist any other way. Or have I really missed something because my evil right-wing elitist heart is all Grinch-i-ficated?
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2) other areas of the arts will lose funding, because there is only so much sponsorship money going around.
That's a really easy one to overlook, isn't it? We've been sold this idea that commercial sponsorship is the cure to all ills and that furthermore there's an inexhaustible supply of it, that we tend to forget sometimes that it's more like a blanket of finite area that you cannot pull simultaneously in all directions.
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Sacha, I would hang out with the blue-rinsers a lot more often, but the subsidies are not enough for me to afford it. A lot of other musical forms receive public funding as well: a fair amount of creative electronica/indie musicians gets help from Creative New Zealand.
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MIA - send out the search party
MP for Christchurch Central, Opposition Spokesman on Broadcasting and Water
http://www.brendonburns.co.nz/
OK duplicated comments but as you see they converg on Brendon Burns. It's all happening now, the up and under to see if the full back is awake and able to do his job? -
If anything, bFM ... is more deserving of subsidy.
I would subscribe to such a notion, if it had a nationwide signal (radio coming out the computer isn't right, somehow)
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George, orchestral and concert music is not one genre. You are talking of centuries of music production and of music which still is being written today.
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Giovanni, if the New Zealand Government is to fund a station devoted almost entirely to one genre of music, then why should it not fund all genres equally?
Because it's not a genre that is otherwise represented on the commercial airwaves. And it's a pretty weak counterargument: if you think that there are other underappreciated genres that are equally as relevant, aks for Concert to play them too, don't just axe Concert. I think the channel has become steadily more diverse in the ten years I've spent in the country.
ETA: "George, orchestral and concert music is not one genre." Plus that, yes.
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That's a really easy one to overlook, isn't it? We've been sold this idea that commercial sponsorship is the cure to all ills and that furthermore there's an inexhaustible supply of it, that we tend to forget sometimes that it's more like a blanket of finite area that you cannot pull simultaneously in all directions.
Whereas we have a bottomless exchequer to give Time Warner (or the Eden Park Trust Board) another Middle Earth sized wad of corporate welfare? Nationalise the risk, and privatise the benefits. That pot plant in the corner of Bill English's office isn't a magic money tree either, Gio.
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It's pretty clear that Concert FM is prioritises a European conception of high-concept art music over everything else.
But that's simply a programming fault that they've been getting away with a bit longer than they should have. You still need the cultural showcase, just as with museums, libraries, whatever their programming approach.
They probably need to apply their rebranding exercise of recent years to their two sub-brands. My suggestion would be Natrad = news. Concert = art.
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Jan, I just had a look at "Today on Concert", and saw nothing that I would label diverse.
George - I apologise for my lack of clarity - what I mean to suggest was that you scroll down the page that has 'Today in Concert', until you get to a separate panel called, 'Our Programmes'.
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hat pot plant in the corner of Bill English's office isn't a magic money tree either, Gio.
Seems to be, when it comes to funding private schools. Or cutting the top tax rate. Somehow the plant withers only for the stuff that poor people need or want. A magic ficus!
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the concerts and the documentaries played by the RNZ Concert are valuable in exactly the same way that a library is
Or an art gallery, or a museum, or a national archive...
and would be hard to come by on commercial airwaves, and that furthermore they reach communities where such things aren't available for love or money.
Exactly. Exactly. If you have never been that rural child with a thing for opera, or a poor music-lover who can only dream of affording a live concert, or a long-distance truck driver, or a cash-strapped single mother making ends meet by teaching piano in the wop-wops, or a house-painter with an allergy to talk radio, or a kid from a school with a crap music department, or just plain housebound, or blind, or confined to bed, or facing mortality, or driving from one end of the country to the other while twiddling the dial to see what you can find ...
... and even if you haven't, you should still be affirming the value of a national music-centric radio station, because it might be you one day, yearning for a spot of Rachmaninoff, some turn of the century Spanish songs, Handel, Brahms, Bloch, Debussy, Gounod, the piano stylings of Michael Houston and Sarah Watkins, or a symphony for cello by Frank Zappa's 18th C namesake and that's just today on Concert FM. But if Concert goes down, you'll be stuck with the Four Seasons and the Flight of the Damn Bumblebee on endless rotate on ClassicalGasFM.
Look, I get the point, that it's worth asking why we've got what we've got (and won't know what we had till it's gone), but why'd you wait until now? Does the devil really need any advocates in this debate, at this precise point?
I think George made the most pertinently devilish argument: if Concert doesn't satisfy, then surely what we need is more, not less. (See also BBC1 through 7 plus BBC International). Nobody here, as Jan pointed out, is making an either/or argument on this.
In simple terms, if you're allergic to the free ice cream that's kindly being dispensed to all citizens, then by all means demand that some excellent sorbet be served alongside the dairy treats. Slashing the tires on the cultural ice cream truck is, well, barbaric.
(Oops, there, I said it. The barbarians are coming. They may already be among us. They may even be clean-shaven.)
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George, orchestral and concert music is not one genre.
Paul: I would argue that it is, in the way it is identified in CD stores (eg Marbeck's), radio listings, radio stations, magazines, library cataloguing--as in Barry K. Grant's general definition of genre as "Genre is what we collectively believe it to be".
Orchestral and concert music aka 'classical music' is the large mega-genre, with sub-genres such as chamber music etc
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Chamber music is good for you.
And don't forget to check out the new ETA range of snackfoods.
Sorry, but I thought we should try sponsorship options to keep minority opinions on PAS.
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A lot of other musical forms receive public funding as well: a fair amount of creative electronica/indie musicians gets help from Creative New Zealand.
Oh really? - here's the Arts Board's 2009/2010 grants for music:
175 East: towards a new work and performance featuring Dylan Lardelli;
Steve Abel: towards recording and mastering a
new album;
Atoll Ltd: to produce a CD of New Zealand
string quartet music;
Brigid Bisley: towards a new work for string
quartet to be premiered at the 2011 Adam
Chamber Festival in Nelson;
Philip Dadson and Richard Nunns: towards
travel to South Africa and South America to
participate and perform in LATITUDE 35
festivals;
Gisborne Rotary Charitable Trust: towards
professional fees for jurors at the Gisborne
music competition;
Jeff Henderson: towards research, composition
and development of music systems for
performance work;
Manukau Symphony Orchestra: towards a new
work commission;
Pradipta Mukherjee: towards professional
development in the Rabindra Sangeet artform;
Nelson Composers Workshop: towards the
2010 Nelson composers’ workshop;
Nimby Opera: towards touring ‘The Cunning
Little Vixen’ to Auckland, Kerikeri, Hamilton
and Tauranga;
NZTrio: towards commissioning Judy Bailey to
create a jazz/classical fusion piece;
Madeleine Pierard: towards training at the
National Opera School in London;
Stroma New Music Ensemble: towards
commissioning of new work;
Stroma New Music Ensemble: towards the
2010 performance programme of two concerts;
The Audio Foundation: towards the 2010
Altmusic programme.Frightfully diverse, eh what.
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George, orchestral and concert music is not one genre. You are talking of centuries of music production and of music which still is being written today.
I mean genre in the widest sense, in the same way that I could call pop music, or rock music a 'genre', despite each harbouring an incredible diversity of music from different times and places. I don't think that's innapproriate.
you think that there are other underappreciated genres that are equally as relevant, aks for Concert to play them too, don't just axe Concert
I really think that there is a place for a second fully-Government-funded national music station. I'm just not comfortable with the fact that one set of interests are priveleged over that of others. Concert is a very popular station, and there are a great number of people who enjoy its music - getting rid of it isn't an answer that I consider worth contemplating (and I suspect that National would consider too politically risky). I think that it's possible to expand Concert's remit to further include other music and services without losing its core focus.
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The Concert FM is an artefact of our colonial heritage, from a time when "culture" was viewed through an entirely Eurocentric lens. It is clear from any rational review of the content that this is largely the case today, despite the few hours of non-classical content each week.
It certainly does not appear to be reflective of our current bil-cultural society. I couldn't find any Maori or Pasifika content when I took a look at the site.
I agree with Sacha and Danyl, it is difficult to make a case for Concert FM from a public good perspective. If classical music is as popular as it has been suggested in this thread, then the market would surely be able to deliver it ? Perhaps the main reason preventing the market supplying an alternative is the Concert FM enjoys a natural monopoly.
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Bad timing I guess, but having Joanne Black on today's The Panel won't do much to increase my warm regard of NatRadio. Another case of someone with excessive access to the public discourse?
Couldn't agree more about Joanne Black (and some other people) - that's why we need Concert Programme's relief from the National Programme between Morning Reports weekdays.
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The Concert FM is an artefact of our colonial heritage, from a time when "culture" was viewed through an entirely Eurocentric lens.
You owe me a desk.
ETA: although admittedly it had been weakened.
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if you think that there are other underappreciated genres that are equally as relevant, ask for Concert to play them too, don't just axe Concert.
Agree
It's pretty clear that Concert FM is prioritises a European conception of high-concept art music over everything else.
But that's simply a programming fault that they've been getting away with a bit longer than they should have. You still need the cultural showcase, just as with museums, libraries, whatever their programming approach.
Quite
Slashing the tires on the cultural ice cream truck is, well, barbaric.
Nice
Does the devil really need any advocates in this debate, at this precise point?
Think of it as warming yourself up for the inevitable scrap over what I have to agree with Craig and others is purely a political decision about what gets funded properly and what doesn't.
Saying that rich white folk are a prime target of RNZ Concert might actually persuade this govt to fund it - aspirational, etc, you understand..
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what we need is more, not less
I agree.
Q: would "creative and flexible" include a Radio NZ music publishing business?
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But if Concert goes down, you'll be stuck with the Four Seasons and the Flight of the Damn Bumblebee on endless rotate on ClassicalGasFM.
Nicely put!
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There was a commercial classical station piped in from the states a few years back. Anyone remember?
Regardless, didn't last.
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NZTrio: towards commissioning Judy Bailey to
create a jazz/classical fusion piece;Truly we live in exciting times.
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would "creative and flexible" include a Radio NZ music publishing business?
Great idea - another revenue stream as well as a reach multiplier
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