Hard News: Holiday Open Thread 2: Chewing over the News
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
2) If that doesn't work, lie. Re-write history, no matter how recent or easily checked, until nobody (least of all Palin herself) can keep the lies straight any more.
Inexplicable Edits on Sarah Palin's Facebook Page
Sarah Palin has a reputation for being an agressive editor of comments on her Facebook page - a reputation that has always seemed likely accurate to me, given the tedious consistency with which all comments on the page are along the lines of "I love you SARAH!"But in the wake of the terrible events in Arizona, with many commentators pointing out the obvious fact that Gabrielle Giffords had been targetted by Palin in the November election on a map that used a chilling gun site graphic, I thought it would be worth watching her page for a little while to see if her team were indeed deleting negative comments routinely. But I had no idea how incredibly, almost comically, efficient her people would turn out to be in deleting comments that were even slightly critical of the former Governor. And then I came across... well, what I guess you'd have to politely call an appalling example of editorial misjudgement at best.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
And…..
Oh yeah… that comment about the little girl who was killed was beyond vile. Seriously, I pity any journalist who has had to deal with Palin for any length of time. She's like some 'roid rage prom queen who has never had to grow up,
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
I pity any journalist who has had to deal with Palin for any length of time. She’s like some ’roid rage prom queen who has never had to grow up,
One who's got guns, and knows how to use them. One of the few things I doubt that Palin has any difficulty using with great competence is a weapon, be it a firearm or a knife.
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One of the few things I doubt that Palin has any difficulty using with great competence is a weapon, be it a firearm or a knife.
Hell, you should track down some real hunters’ views of Sarah Palin’s Alaska. “Lamestream poser” would be an accurate, but heavily cleaned up, summary.
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James Butler, in reply to
One of the few things I doubt that Palin has any difficulty using with great competence is a weapon, be it a firearm or a knife.
Your doubt may be misplaced.
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Neil Morrison, in reply to
Good to see you are so in the mind of every nutter out there on the periphery
Are you refering to people with a mental illness in general or do you have in mind a particlar cognitive dysfunction that would lead to such concrete thinking?
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
No, Neil, I'm referring to your particular wide ranging statement.
'No-one' is fairly concrete, no?
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Neil Morrison, in reply to
so you have a counter example?
I was using concrete thinking in its technical sense.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
Why did you leave out in your episode recap that the reason why she missed was that the rifle’s scope was off?
So maybe my lack of doubt is misplaced, or maybe not.
One can typically get much closer to an errant journalist than to a caribou before one shoots, so scope accuracy shouldn't be a crucial factor when dealing with disrespectful meedja types. -
Angus Robertson, in reply to
Here's a quick thought exercise, if you're unconvinced: stick a crosshairs over the kiwi in the Air Force logo, rather than the bullseye currently used. And tell me the meaning doesn't change.
They're both still associated with killing to me.
Among other things the military symbol holds some militaristic symbolism.
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
so you have a counter example?
Neil - politely - what the hell are you on about?
I don't need a 'counter example'. You made the wide ranging statement that 'no-one' (which is all exclusive) 'takes these signs literally in this sort of context'.
It's a nonsense statement unless you can read the thought processes of every wacko looking at the imagery. Can you?
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coupled with the really quite offensive implication that we (or the dreaded `some people’) are using this in some kind of sly, underhanded way.
Please show me where I implied that. Otherwise, please apologise and withdraw.
The condescension lies in assuming that an adult human being in full possession of their faculties and speaking the English language would somehow be unaware of the assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK, and Lincoln, the Oklahoma City bombing, Ruby Ridge, Waco, the militia movement in general, the KKK, etc.)
Keir, do you really think I’m mansplainy enough to assume in making my original comment that people aren’t aware of all those things and more?
Until I made my comment, no-one on here (to the best of my recollection) had even mentioned or implied that there might be a context ouside the last two-three years of teabaggery rhetoric. And no-one in the mainstream press had done so, either.
Instead, all of the very first reaction pieces I read, printed almost before the echoes died away, explicity, and to the exclusion of all other context, started talking about the Tea Party/Palin, et al.
And a great many people aren’t even asserting any contextual link here…
So while that may not amount to an explicit contextual link, it does tend to quickly and effectively drown out any other argument, and very strongly imply that there is only one cause. And I don’t think that’s particularly helpful, because it excludes any broader discussion that might otherwise occur – gun control, the marginalisation of the disaffected, etc.
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Neil Morrison, in reply to
"Nutter"? "wacko"?
I still don't know who you're talkng about. The inablity to think in an abstract manner is known as concrete thinking. It can result from some forms of mental illness, if you could give some examples of people with a mental illness taking such symbols literally and acting out on that please do.
One problem with that is the map is also a symbol, I haven't heard of any outbreak of people shooting maps.
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Sacha, in reply to
the other positions someone as a target.
A bullseye positions some thing as a target - another difference.
I have yet to see a crosshair used as a common metaphor for a goal of any sort other than killing.
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
They're both still associated with killing to me.
Among other things the military symbol holds some militaristic symbolism.
The airforce aircraft is indeed a military aircraft and the military do have a role in violent action.
However the roundel on a military aircraft is more correctly though of as a badge identifying the nation it belongs to, like the flag on a commercial liner. During WW2 BOAC aircraft carried these too at times despite being completely civilian.
That aircraft carries that badge whether it's dropping bombs or it's dropping supplies and food (which ours are more likely to do these days). Its role is closer to that of a national branding not a symbol that that says 'kill'.
Our PM arrives in a nation on a plane bearing one - I'm hoping he/she is not trying to say they are there to kill.
A crosshair on the other hand has but one purpose - to target to kill.
Perhaps this will help:
Noun
* S: (n) target, mark (a reference point to shoot at) "his arrow hit the mark"
* S: (n) prey, quarry, target, fair game (a person who is the aim of an attack (especially a victim of ridicule or exploitation) by some hostile person or influence) "he fell prey to muggers"; "everyone was fair game"; "the target of a manhunt"
* S: (n) target, target area (the location of the target that is to be hit)
* S: (n) target, butt (sports equipment consisting of an object set up for a marksman or archer to aim at)
* S: (n) aim, object, objective, target (the goal intended to be attained (and which is believed to be attainable)) "the sole object of her trip was to see her children"Unless of course you assume that she was wanting to cause terminal harm to her children, the last one doesn't fit your above association at all.
[As an aside I'm fairly protective of the kiwi roundel on the RNZAF aircraft - it was my father who had the red dot with a fern changed in the late 196os. The kiwi itself was copied from a handy florin).
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
if you could give some examples of people with a mental illness taking such symbols literally and acting out on that please do.
I don't have to, Neil - you made the unsupportable statement that not a single living or dead person would in the future, or has in the past, (that's 'no-one' BTW) taken such an image seriously. I didn't. You don't and can't know whether that is true.
I haven't heard of any outbreak of people shooting maps.
Good grief.
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I haven’t heard of any outbreak of people shooting maps.
There was a bit of that sort of thing about in the late 80s:
Make a hole with a gun perpendicular
To the name of this town on a desktop globe
Exit wound in a foreign nation
Marking the home of the one this is written for . . . -
Neil Morrison, in reply to
Good grief.
If someone's thinking is so concrete that they mistake a symbol for the real thing (the crosshairs symbol) then they will not be able to make a distinction between the map and what the map represents, ie they won't know its a symbol.
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
someone
So you've moved from 'no-one' to 'someone'.
Thank you.
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Until I made my comment, no-one on here (to the best of my recollection) had even mentioned or implied that there might be a context ouside the last two-three years of teabaggery rhetoric. And no-one in the mainstream press had done so, either.
This is just wrong. If you look at page 6 alone of this thread prior to your comment you will see, in reverse chronological order, Lucy Stewart noting that US history of political violence amplified the impact of violent rhetoric, Sacha mentioning the Oklahoma City bombing, and Simon Grigg linking to a time line of political violence in the US.
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I haven't caught up so sorry if this has been posted: Obama London: Inexplicible edits on Sarah Palin's Facebook page.
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
If you look at page 6 alone of this thread prior to your comment you will see, in reverse chronological order,
However, in the late 12 months threats against upper house incumbents have almost doubled:
The office of the sergeant at arms of the Senate said that Saturday the number of cases of significant threats against senators rose to 49 in 2010, up from 29 the previous year.
Read into that what you will (and I sure many will).
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Sacha, in reply to
Until I made my comment, no-one on here (to the best of my recollection) had even mentioned or implied that there might be a context ouside the last two-three years of teabaggery rhetoric.
To be fair, Neil could be saying we hadn't cited explanations of the lone commie pothead variety. Kiwibog had those right away.
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Tom Tomorrow cartoon about the political conversation (via Dylan Horrocks)
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recordari, in reply to
Make a hole with a gun perpendicular
To the name of this town on a desktop globe
Exit wound in a foreign nation
Marking the home of the one this is written for . . .They Might Be Giants - "Ana Ng"
Love it. Was a favourite at bFM in the late 80s.
Here's another.
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