Hard News: Limping Onwards
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
It's almost laughable :)
Considering this was a person's report from a bus stop, who thought being O week ,it was probably normal. Near the area. I mean, I could suggest Hughes got angry at the guy stripping off and coming into his room so kicked him out and wouldn't let him back in to get his clothes, and then the police show up and take "items" (the guys clothes ) to return them to the guy who is back at the cop shop naked.
BUT I WOULDN'T!! -
Russell Brown, in reply to
If ever in doubt, email any politician and ask questions. What you just asked could be copied over to any of them and they are meant to answer. Although Judith Collins wont respond to me.:)
She responded to me once. She wasn't very nice though.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
BUT I WOULDN’T!!
And you shouldn't. It's possible this is a vexatious complaint or a misunderstanding or something that doesn't breach any law.
But -- and this is a bit like the Assange case -- it's a complaint from someone apparently previously very favourably disposed towards Hughes and the party itself. Nothing said by his friends has suggested he's a vexatious complainant. We should respect that in the same way we'd respect a complaint from an 18 year-old woman.
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Paul, John, and others, cherry-picking a couple of convenient examples to defend Labour's record isn't enough. Any fool can do that.
Lew, just saw this gratuitous comment. Going to let it pass through to the 'keeper (as they say over here). I like the company at publicaddress which is robust but mostly respectful something I think you're struggling with a little.
16% under Helen Clark at one point, Paul. That's half what Labour's regularly polling now. And look what Clark (with Cullen) went on to achieve...
A little while, not a long while, after which I joined the Labour Research Unit. Interesting times.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Hear Hear!
Also the only honest thing I can remember Key ever saying (and I assume it was when he was younger at PM and more naive)was his admitting he asked Helen what to do when meeting International leaders.
And let's face it, Goff may blunder ,but he admits when he's wrong,( I'll call it learning his new position)and Key has had his fair share too (I'll call his sliming along , smiling assassin was his own term for himself I hear) -
giovanni tiso, in reply to
Goff may blunder ,but he admits when he's wrong
When he was out of Parliament, after the 1990 election, he was asked about Rogernomics and he said that the policies were right, they just hadn't been explained well enough. That's not the talk of a man that admits to mistakes. (And he was speaking as a private citizen on the occasion.)
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Yes exactly RB, that was kinda my point. So far all of this is speculation being reported. I think it is awfully unfair for this to get all this speculation without due process. The cops (for now ) have been the most responsible saying "nothing".
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Rex Widerstrom, in reply to
He can't always have been that bad -- he has a very safe seat and an excellent local electoral organisation -- but he just seemed all at sea.
Could that not be why he is so bad? You're a safe seat MP or a list MP, you don't have to meet the plebs or, if you do, give a damn what they think of you. Keep wearing the right coloured ribbon and the mugs'll keep voting for you.
The electorate voted for MMP thinking they'd get better representation with greater accountability. Ironically, the very concept of a list MP is the most unaccountable, unrepresentative politician in any jurisdiction outside Libya. Or maybe Zimbabwe.
When I read something like Graeme's comment that:
...the roles of Party President, Party Leader and Deputy Leader are now filled by entirely different individuals?
If Little, Goff and King were drawing up the list in 2008 maybe Tizard wouldn't have been on it at all.
it just sounds so... wrong. The judgment as to whether Tizard (in this case) or any candidate is an appropriate member of the House of Representatives should not be in the hands of three people, and subject to their caprice, but rather to that of as many as possible of those whom they seek to represent.
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Sacha, in reply to
one of the more impressive achievements of the Clark government was telecommunications reform
Led by.. Cunliffe
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Appalling policy platform and a bad direction for the country, but that’s independent of its quality as a political move.
Re the media – my only point is that a political movement which wants to be successful responds to how things are rather than how things might be.
Hang on a moment while I find Chris Trotter's "Waitakere man" treatise ...
But, yeah and nah. Part of successful politics is precisely acting on the basis of how things might be.
And also Lew, you have been a wee bit patronising. Don't say "I've written at length about this, so look it up"; craft a dynamite summary for the people, who aren't all political junkies here.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Well we can all live and learn Gio. Maybe just not as fast as some may like. He did admit recently that, they got it wrong with regards access to courts for Maori with regard foreshore etc. He admitted he got it wrong pushing Key over Worth and his issues. I actually find him quite good on responses to questions I pose to him, being that he is my electorate.
Still, sad he ain't perfect, but never to old to learn init ;) -
Russell Brown, in reply to
The electorate voted for MMP thinking they’d get better representation with greater accountability. Ironically, the very concept of a list MP is the most unaccountable, unrepresentative politician in any jurisdiction outside Libya. Or maybe Zimbabwe.
Bzzzzt! Isn't there a Godwin equivalent for when people invoke Zimbabwe?
List MPs -- various Greens; Hughes, Ardern, Mackey, Twyford, Hughes, Chris Finlayson -- tend more to be the ones I like. Certainly, all of them bar Finlayson contested electorates, but the idea that a list MP is automatically bad and unaccountable is unsustainable.
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Rex Widerstrom, in reply to
it's a complaint from someone apparently previously very favourably disposed towards Hughes and the party itself
You're not the first person I've seen make this argument, but I still don't follow the logic. While not implying for a moment the complaint is vexatious, the only circumstances in which someone makes a vexatious complaint is to harm someone that has previously mattered to them.
If I'm going to lay a vexatious complaint I'm not going to stick a pin in a phone book, I'm going to seek to vex someone who I feel has harmed or betrayed me in a pre-existing relationship - personal, sexual, business or political. And given that I had a realtionship with the person at some point, I was probably "favourably disposed" toward them in the past.
Similarly, previous positive attitudes in no way affects the possibility of some horrible misunderstanding having arisen; it's irrelevant one way or the other. If the misunderstanding were trivial then tribal loyalty might constrain the injured party, but if signals were mixed in a personal (and possibly sexual) situation, then hardly.
Past political inclinations are, I'd suggest, of no help whatsoever in speculating upon the validity of the complaint.
There's some irony in us all saying "we shouldn't speculate" and then going on to do so, and I'm as guilty as anyone. But we really shouldn't, and all I'm trying to say is assume nothing in these situations.
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Sacha, in reply to
Part of successful politics is precisely acting on the basis of how things might be.
Bridging the vision and the now is a damn hard thing. Connecting dreams and realities. Yet political parties have been doing that for years, with the right skills and leadership. Has the ground really shifted in some fundamental way? In any case, it's the engine room I'd be worried about if I were Labour. Which I'm not.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Led by.. Cunliffe
Yes. And I'm sure his background with big international business consultants was a help.
Joyce, on the other hand, hails from a more provincial business environment. Trouble is, governments cannot be run like commercial radio stations.
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Sacha, in reply to
Trouble is, governments cannot be run like commercial radio stations.
Sadly I suspect we're seeing exactly that in the case of the interminable broadband backroom dealings Joyce has concocted since the election.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I suggest we both stop speculating.
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Rex Widerstrom, in reply to
the idea that a list MP is automatically bad and unaccountable is unsustainable
Okay the Zimbabwe thing was meant tongue-in-cheek. There really needs to be a tongue-in-cheek smiley.
All list MPs aren't "bad", and I'm not saying they are. I'd agree with a few of your picks of the good ones.
However MMP has gifted us everyone from Alamein "flog the furniture" Kopu to David "flog the prisoners" Garrett - not poster children for people in tune with even a significant sctor of the population.
How are any of them accountable to anyone but party bosses?
[Not that I'm advocating for FPP. Far from it. IMO we need a uniquely NZ system built on stuff we can learn from overseas. But I don't wish to digress too far].
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Rex, the man gets out and about, promise. The guy is a workaholic in this area. I go for the groceries, there he is, I open the letter box, a mini calender which I actually needed. His office is open unlike Jackie Blue, (which I have never seen open and do know she doesn't share with Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga) and he has a roaming caravan for people contact. Thing is he is still the same man the electorate believes in because he hasn't changed but does listen which is why he was able to learn a few differing ideas from his electorate.
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Paul Williams, in reply to
Yet political parties have been doing that for years, with the right skills and leadership. Has the ground shifted in some fundamental way? In any case, it's the engine room I'd be worried about if I were Labour. Which I'm not.
I am and I'm not panicking. Hughes has gone and may clear his name. If he does, some of the sting in this might abate. That said, I'd have preferred this handled differently, particularly the decision allow him to speak at the subsequent event on dirty politics.
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My 2c.
Oddly enough, for someone who is actually a politician and therefore should be vitally interested in this, I'm not.
What it all proves is that politicans are human (to wit, Michael Lhaws, Darren Hughes), not superhuman beings that act perfectly, 100% of the time. Well, maybe 99% of the time...
And what I am most irked about it is that Goff won't go hard left. Or anywhere near left. As a politician I get to listen to all sorts of interesting people, right across the spectrum. Many of whom would prefer Goff/Labour to come out with something very left. Partly because it makes sense most of the time depending on the policy idea, and partly because it becomes something to judge the National party against.
I'm not at all hard left, just centre left, but stack some of my thoughts up against Goff's and I'm virtually right centre. Gimme someone who can say, yes, we'll nationalise the electricity system because frankly this faux free market is just a joke. Yes, we'll support 12 months parental leave because we know that spending time with your newborn is vital. Yes we'll create programs that target solo mums and their children and the 20% of children that live in poverty because the cost of gaoling them as adults is too expensive.
Sorry, I'm just ranting here... I shall stop. And get another G&T.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Rex, the man gets out and about, promise. The guy is a workaholic in this area.
Yeah, that's what I meant to say. He's a bloody great electorate MP, from what I can tell.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
However MMP has gifted us everyone from Alamein “flog the furniture” Kopu to David “flog the prisoners” Garrett – not poster children for people in tune with even a significant sctor of the population.
Bob Clarkson.
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The electorate voted for MMP thinking they’d get better representation with greater accountability. Ironically, the very concept of a list MP is the most unaccountable, unrepresentative politician in any jurisdiction outside Libya. Or maybe Zimbabwe.
In reality the accountability and representation has greatly increased with the introduction of list MPs. In the major parties they almost all want to be electorate MPs - so their careers aren't subject to the whims of the leadership - so many electorates have two MPs advocating for them instead of just the one. And the list MPs feel accountable to the electorate that they aspire to, as well as the wider population.
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Ah. The EPMU has a campaign launching tomorrow. Embargoed.
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