Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Mandela

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  • BenWilson,

    <redacted trollbait>

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10631 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Kracklite,

    PA-HN is a good, safe place to discuss serious matters in a civil way

    And it's a good, safe place because by and large people act respectfully and speak civilly.

    When people like you and Morrissey start firing off personal abuse, the place stops being good and safe. It's you who are the problem here, not Hooton. Hooton has commented in good faith and with respect. You have every right to disagree strenuously, but this place only works if we can be civilised.

    Remember when I told everyone you weren't a troll? Don't make me regret that.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Lilith __,

    Hooton has commented in good faith and with respect.

    No, I'm sorry, but Uriah Hoot NEVER says anything in good faith, he has only imitated those qualities. You really should, or shouldn't - because it could be triggering - look at his utterly vile racist and misogynist comments that he has made for many years about "dumb bros" and "stupid maori" and how women aren't fit for careers.

    Maybe there's some kind of moral equivalent of the Turing Test? Uriah Hoot will make it to a high level, but he'll fail in practice.

    Remember when I told everyone you weren't a troll? Don't make me regret that.

    I thank you very much for that, and I won't forget it, but Uriah Hoot is a fraud and he's the one real exception that I'll make here. As I've mentioned, he's attacked me personally over my mental health (depression and anxiety) issues as a cheap shot and if he can't take criticism, well then...

    I deeply and sincerely respect the nature of PA (and people with whom I've had deep disagreements such as your self and Craig - indeed, I respect you all the more because of your honesty), but I despise attempts to pervert it as that professional liar has done. I won't be so nasty with anyone else, but Uriah Hoot is not to be trusted, ever.

    I'll happily sacrifice my reputation in opposition to what that slime represents.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kracklite,

    pervert it to his advantage

    I can't see what advantage that might be, but you have clearly formed a narrative around it. Fine to distrust Hooten but I'm not convinced you're making a sound judgement in this case.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Sacha,

    OK Sacha, Is a "narrative" necessarily wrong?

    I can't see what advantage that might be

    Oh dear... No Uriah isn't Dr Evil/Strangelove - he's too banal for that, but he's hardly innocent or not tendentious. He's not even an extremist, but he's gleefully and profitably paving the road to right-wing extremism.

    I know too much history and know too many old germans and eastern europeans who are have had direct experience of how propaganda and tyranny work. I may seem hyperbolic, but while Uriah might not be a Nazi, "It couldn't happen here" is just damned foolishness (look up Oswald Mosely and compare him with the people Uriah was so happy to associate with at the Malborough Sounds Symposia). They'll use caricatures of real heroes any way they can to further aims that are utterly antithetical to those heroes'/heroines' real aims.

    When it's obvious, it's too late.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kracklite,

    Is a "narrative" necessarily wrong?

    Not at all. But you seem to be drawing a long bow in this instance.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Kracklite,

    I deeply and sincerely respect the nature of PA (and people with whom I’ve had deep disagreements such as your self and Craig – indeed, I respect you all the more because of your honesty), but I despise attempts to pervert it as that professional liar has done. I won’t be so nasty with anyone else, but Uriah Hoot is not to be trusted, ever.

    Can I ask that you let it go now? It's a lovely day, it's nearly Christmas and I don't really want to be monitoring discussions.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Russell Brown,

    If that applies to everyone, fine.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    Mandela was known for forgiving his captors, after decades of unjust imprisonment. If he can do that, can't we at least be civil to people with different political views?

    It'd be sad if the Mandela memorial thread turned into a dirty catfight.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Lilith __,

    It’d be sad if the Mandela memorial thread turned into a dirty catfight.

    Indeed. SE my entreaty as the end of the original post.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Lilith __,

    You're right, and I aspire to be civil with people with different political views such as Craig, but with shameless liars and wolves who cry "Boy"? No, not ever. I agree absolutely with you... with the exception of Uriah and his ilk.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Kracklite,

    I agree absolutely with you… with the exception

    Dude, please stop now. You already Godwinned the thread.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Fine, I have a mental illness - aspergers, leading to anxiety and depression, diagnosed, medicated and having treatment. Uriah has ridiculed me for that as Rhinocrates on The Standard, so let him apologise and withdraw his mockery, then I'll let it rest. If you want to support bigots and give them a platform, then that's "fine" and goodbye.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Lilith __,

    Sorry Lilith, but Uriah is a bigot who readily uses mental illness as a means of denigration. Don't facilitate his bigotry.

    I admit that I am unwell, but I WILL NOT let that bigoted scumbag participate in a group hug or appropriate Nelson Mandela's memory be used to glorify Margaret Fucking Thatcher or David Fucking Cameron.

    Yes, I'm angry. In fact I'm furious at the sanctimonious hypocrisy I see. If you don't want to hear what I have to say, go back to your chardonnay.

    Goodbye.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Morrissey Breen, in reply to Lilith __,

    “When people like you and Morrissey start firing off personal abuse”

    I raised an objection to some glaring falsehoods in a post by a notorious right-wing commentator. Nowhere did I “start firing off” anything like personal abuse. Perhaps you are thinking of Sacha, who uses a four-letter term of abuse for David Cameron, or of Craig Ranapia, whose posts are full of foul language and furious name-calling, as well as almost unbelievably naïve reiterations of faith in the integrity of one of the National Party’s nastiest and most cynical operatives.

    Northcote Point • Since Dec 2013 • 8 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Morrissey Breen,

    I have repeatedly asked everyone here to show good faith and respect. If you can't do that, please leave the discussion.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Morrissey Breen, in reply to Kracklite,

    Kracklite, try to resist rising to Hooton's crude baiting. That's all he has to offer; what infuriates him is if you just keep arguing with him, civilly and logically, like you are doing. I would never have guessed you had any kind of mental problems, judging by your fine writing in The Standard; if Hooton has seized on some personal information he has about you, just ignore that. What infuriates him is when you calmly and systematically counter and occasionally even disprove what he says.

    Hooton is a master of distraction and disguise---you just have to look at how many drippily supportive comments he has garnered on this thread from people like Hebe, Mark Thomas and simon g.

    Northcote Point • Since Dec 2013 • 8 posts Report Reply

  • Morrissey Breen, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Did you have a word to Matthew Hooton when he likened Nelson Mandela to Thatcher and Reagan?

    Or does that qualify as showing "good faith and respect"?

    Northcote Point • Since Dec 2013 • 8 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Morrissey Breen,

    Drop it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Morrissey Breen,

    Yes, of the left, Craig is a good and worthy critic and people should listen to him. Of the right, well, he tends to pull his punches...

    I'm sorry Russell, but "it's a nice day" is really a cop out. Nelson Mandela's memory is a serious matter, not an occasion for ritualistic platitudes. You opened a Pandora's box that needed to have been opened and it's too late to close it now.

    Goodbye.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Kracklite,

    I run this place, I've run it for a long time and I run it well. Sometimes it takes more attention, emotional energy and empathy than I feel I have to spare. It's worthwhile because this is a unique environment.

    But I need people to respect my requests, not instruct me to suck it up. I'm closing the thread. Thanks everyone.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

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