Hard News: Miracles just rate better, okay?
510 Responses
First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 … 21 Newer→ Last
-
Also good for injuries and diseases that lead to tissue destruction, according to Wikipedia. And whilst Wikipedia may not be all that and a bag of chips for authority, I knew about the use of hyperbaric treatment for burns and the others in the "approved treatments" list are sufficiently similar that it is a logical extension.
Oh for sure. But this guy's treating autism and stroke with it.
I dont think those two are merely coincidental. They can both be devastating at onset and improve over time. When you've paid a lot of money for "treatment", you're going to want to believe you've bought something.
-
Oh for sure. But this guy's treating autism and stroke with it.
What Russell said.
Also, if it works, brilliant. I just object to having "news" basically consisting of "this company would like you to use their medical treatment, because they say it's awesome". I'd object if it had been for paracetamol, and I *know* that there's excellent science backing that up.
-
Ignorance doesn't make people nearly as vulnerable to quacks as desperation.
But I suspect you are stuck with the second if you possess the first.
And I think if one checks the meaning, the idea of "having the recklessness of despair" sums up the reason why ignorance is prime.
Hope is the other nasty variation on the theme.
"All hope is lost".....
Ignorance:
–noun the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.Desperation:
–noun 1. the state of being desperate or of having the recklessness of despair.
2. the act or fact of despairing; despair.Recklessness:
–adjective 1. utterly unconcerned about the consequences of some action; without caution; careless (usually fol. by of): to be reckless of danger.
2. characterized by or proceeding from such carelessness: reckless extravagance.Hope:
–noun 1. the feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out for the best: to give up hope.
2. a particular instance of this feeling: the hope of winning.
3. grounds for this feeling in a particular instance: There is little or no hope of his recovery.
4. a person or thing in which expectations are centered: The medicine was her last hope.
5. something that is hoped for: Her forgiveness is my constant hope.–verb (used with object) 6. to look forward to with desire and reasonable confidence.
7. to believe, desire, or trust: I hope that my work will be satisfactory.–verb (used without object) 8. to feel that something desired may happen: We hope for an early spring.
9. Archaic. to place trust; rely (usually fol. by in).—Idiom10. hope against hope, to continue to hope, although the outlook does not warrant it: We are hoping against hope for a change in her condition.
-
But I suspect you are stuck with the second if you possess the first.
Jeez, chill out Ross. I'm sure you could retain your reasoned mind in the face of the awful challenges those parents face, but not everyone can. I might lament their choices, but I see them as victims.
-
Frank Zappa's unnervingly catchy take on God-fearing social intercourse
And if you can't quite hear the lyrics:
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/f/frank+zappa/catholic+girls_20056731.html
and
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/f/frank+zappa/crew+slut_20057130.html
So........Unnerving.....
-
None of us are typically well informed about the hundred really shitty things that can happen to our kids in utero or after they pop out, before they happen. I knew nothing about Downs Syndrome until my niece was born, I still know only a little.
Even some years on, parents are typically fighting and scrambling to try and learn as much and get as much for their kid as possible. That doesn't make them ignorant. Just amateurs trying to be doctors/occupational therapists/social workers/psychologists/psychiatrists as well as parents and everything else they've got going on in their life.
As Russell points out, it'd be nice of the media didn't stick the boot in further by not taking 5 minutes to phone up an independent expert or do a little research before putting it on the TV.
-
<quote>Jeez, chill out Ross<?quote>
I am. Maybe I am just asking which comes first. The sellers or the buyers?
If these guys hadn't advertised their wares then the media would not have picked up on it surely. And lets be straight here. These items fit the "need" for psychics, the "need" for talking to the dead. All programmes avidly made and sadly, avidly watched. There is a market and the media know it.
And I AM on the side of what you call the victims. But Jeez, how did they become so?
-
From Kyle:
That doesn't make them ignorant.
Please understand I am taking the meaning as "no knowledge" and not "idiots".
-
Adults can make informed choices about how they chose to treat conditions they have. But children don't get the choice and I get concerned about some of the interventions parents subject their children to which have no evidence base, could hurt, be scary, demeaning or dangerous.
There are numerous examples in autism and we have autistic adults who can provide testimony to the negative effects of some interventions they have personally experienced, from institutionalisation to punishment-reinforced ABA sessions. Chelation, hyperbaric chambers, and testosterone injections are some currently popular 'treatments' that some parents are spending a lot of money on. Why? Biopower, individualism and a desire to have a perfect child. If one is not quite 'right' you can pay to fix it. In the old days you just locked them away.
-
Why? Biopower, individualism and a desire to have a perfect child. If one is not quite 'right' you can pay to fix it. In the old days you just locked them away.
Sadly true, Hilary. We've occasionally been tapped for advice over the years for friends of friends who've got an ASD diagnosis. The parents who deal with it the worst are the ones who had it all planned out for their brilliant child.
You really have to let that go before you get anywhere.
-
Big shit storms in academia on stem cells too:
Check this fucken shit out, bod.
New Scientist is following this stuff like a magazine possessed of a burning desire to report on the academic politics of stem cell therapy.
True story.
but I see them as victims.
No caveats from caveat emptor. I'm with you, Ross. People who want to buy snake oil don't deserve much sympathy. Maybe pity. Maybe. These are probably the same type of people that hate fluoride, pasteurisation, innoculations, etc. To fall into such a trap, one has to already be the type of person that is grossly uninformed on a lot of things. I bet they believed in ghosts. If we treated these types of choices with the derision they deserve -- like we did with smoking and should do with obesity -- things would be much more inherently ka pai.
-
The Skeptical Obstetrician, who's an interesting read although I disagree with her on a number of points, has some particularly scathing words for the alternative health sector, and about the extent to which laypeople can make informed decisions about complex subjects:
When a vaccine rejectionist or natural childbirth advocate claims to be "educated" on a topic they don't mean that they have any education on the topic at all. They simply mean that they are defying authority. In their world, trusting experts is a mark of credulity, while ignoring expert advice is a sign of independent thinking and self-education. But, of course, since they don't really know anything about the topic, they are inevitably forced to rely on the advice of propagandists, charlatans and quacks.
It's a sentiment bound to annoy a hell of a lot of people, but when you think about it, you have the options of following your doctor's advice, or reading up on the internet and do something different. The latter feels like making a choice, whereas the former feels like just going with the flow. The latter is harder, therefore feels like better in the implicit economy we assign to things.
-
B Jones, that is very insightful. I never thought about it like that before, but I think you're right. I also think you and Matthew Dentith could have a productive collaboration along those lines...
-
It's a sentiment bound to annoy a hell of a lot of people, but when you think about it, you have the options of following your doctor's advice, or reading up on the internet and do something different. The latter feels like making a choice, whereas the former feels like just going with the flow. The latter is harder, therefore feels like better in the implicit economy we assign to things.
On the other hand: it is possible to be well-informed, and we're basically sitting around being self-congratulatory on how we're smart enough to know the doctor is right. You do need to encourage people to question, or how are they going to know who is a quack?
Of course, we have experts for a reason. Everyone can't know everything. But they can learn how to get know which sources are reliable - and how to know which experts are, in fact, expert. Just saying that everyone who believes in 'alternate' medicine is a blithering idiot is not going to do one thing to make them better-informed. God knows derision is tempting, but it's not an answer.
-
No caveats from caveat emptor. I'm with you, Ross. People who want to buy snake oil don't deserve much sympathy.
No shit, I was thinking "Ross Mason. Dude rains down judgement like ... Brickley Paiste!"
Maybe pity. Maybe.
Softy.
-
I've been invited to make a lot of health choices in the last couple of months - they're all like, it's your choice but here's what the medical profession as a collective whole recommends. It doesn't really feel like a choice to pick the default option, and if choice is the important thing, it's tempting to take the perverse option. Especially if you're in a demographic that prizes being at the leading edge of trends. I can't stand the top ten Resene colours for exactly that reason. Whooping cough isn't in the same league as Half Spanish White, though.
For some reason they left it entirely up to me to book the Joneslet in for her six week shots, although I'm sure someone will be along to make sure I've done it. I wonder if there's some public health psychology that could be applied to the issue.
-
God knows derision is tempting, but it's not an answer.
Hell no, and that's the main reason I part company with the Skeptical OB - I don't think she uses appropriate language to persuade people to her point of view.
Although I recently read, probably there, that there's no way you should trust a GP over the peer-reviewed research they're supposed to implement. They're busy generalists and don't necessarily keep up. And there are GPs profitting from selling chelation agents to parents of kids with autism, according to the awful Mercury Falling/Rising documentary I saw a while back.
-
Big shit storms in academia on stem cells too:
Check this fucken shit out, bod.New Scientist is following this stuff like a magazine possessed of a burning desire to report on the academic politics of stem cell therapy.
It's more a basic thing about faking results, I think. I like that they're angry. And it's funny to see this message multiple times in comments:
"This comment breached our terms of use and has been removed."
-
Dude rains down judgement
Shit. I thought I was the only one!!!!
-
You do need to encourage people to question, or how are they going to know who is a quack?
Oh yes, because the health sector always gets it right.
-
What is interesting is that what is happening is more than ignorance + desperation. There is a also a large helping of the sort of magic thinking that falls from the dictum that the any sufficiently advanced tech will appear to be magic. Biotech and modern Biomedicine has reached this stage for a large segment of the population. They have seen the hard science on stem cells and inhaled the promises of what they will be able to cure 'in the future'. They saw it in the past, so its now that future, right?
issues of tissue typing, immune rejection, cancer risks etc from stem cell injections get forgotten even if they were known about. That must all have been solved by now if they are offering a paying product, right?
Miracles that are given away are pretty much worthless. You should hear people here in the UK bitch about the side effects of life saving high tech treatments that didn't cost them a bean.
Is this going to be a regular series Russ? are you morphing into NZ's Ben Goldacre?
Also there is apparently some (disputed) evidence that hyperbaric O2 is good for MS. But MS is one of those diseases that get better then relapse then get better so clean data acquisition is hard. You wouldn't get me in one, I saw that James Bond film.
-
Oh yes, because the health sector always gets it right.
Actually, this is a really good point.
Because in respect of autism, we've had to endure one or two "official" "expert" people who don't have a clue -- and who have offered actively bad advice.
-
GPs will also give you acupuncture and recommend homeopathy. Some do it in the knowledge that they are comforting placebo and nothing more, many do them for money knowing this and some are True Believers. I'm not sure which ones are worse.
Treat GPs as gatekeepers/triage for the specialists and get passed on up if doubtful. The specialists should be current in the literature.
Oh and buy Ben Goldacre's book Bad Science and read it hard.
And finally, stay away from Chiropractors and Osteopaths. They are demonstrably dangerous:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2008/06/13/chiro-lawsuit.htmlSee a physio, for one thing if they misbehave or mistreat there is a real regulatory body that can properly stop them practising. That is NOT true for Chiros and Osteos, the latter are often Chiros who have been 'struck off' by the Chiro Society, so they relabel themselves and carry on.
-
I didn't watch the doco, but did it examine why families felt compelled to try "curing" cerebral palsy?
-
Peter, I think you're being a bit harsh on both acupuncturists and osteopaths.
Post your response…
This topic is closed.