Hard News: Not so much ironic as outrageous
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The historical responses from some 'pro-family' lobbies to [this person] have been highly polically based and less than 'pratically' sensible. I mean, this lady is a disfunctional parent and the authorities were right to step in. It's a prima facie case for how the system should work to protect children who are otherwise defenseless. On the other hand, I still do not think the 'anti-smacking' legislation was the method to stop this sort of vilolence. I mean we are still seeing horrific violence towards kids from people who care little about such laws.
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On the other hand, I still do not think the 'anti-smacking' legislation was the method to stop this sort of vilolence. I mean we are still seeing horrific violence towards kids from people who care little about such laws.
The law change won't halt violence against children in itself: Sue Bradford has said that repeatedly. But this actually was a case where someone successfully used a Section 59 defence.
It's actually very striking when you look back and see quite how many people were furiously rallying to Bishop's defence at the time. They're all pretty quiet now.
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There is no doubt that the Section 59 rtepeal is widely disliked, and the lies of the likes of Family First have attained the status of received truth. I got hissed at recently by a group of strangers listening in when I questioned a girl gathering signatures for this referendum in the domain about the honesty of the question and the issues raised.
Call me a PC social engineer, but the more I hear the appalling deeply entrenched attitudes towards child violence from large numbers of "decent, middle class" people in this country, and the more I hear people in deep deep denial about the child violence endemic in our society, the more convinced I am that we've made a revolutionary change for the better.
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She has since been the subject of yet another assault complaint, from her daughter, who was removed from her care late last year.
Oh well, that just proves it then. The poor child was quite happy until kidnapped by the government and brainwashed into making bogus claims about her Christian mother. Because we all know the Lesbian Witches currently running this country hate Jesus. I'd suggest we all gather at midday on Friday for a mass prayer and a rousing rendition of "God Defend New Zealand".
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Oh well, that just proves it then. The poor child was quite happy until kidnapped by the government and brainwashed into making bogus claims about her Christian mother. Because we all know the Lesbian Witches currently running this country hate Jesus. I'd suggest we all gather at midday on Friday for a mass prayer and a rousing rendition of "God Defend New Zealand".
Your sarcasm feels like "Blackadder Goes Forth" - oftentimes, too disturbingly accurate to be funny.
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In the christian circles I move in, I hear a lot of sadness about child abuse. Jesus often spoke of our responsiblities as Carers of children and would condemn vilolence of such a nature towards them. But unfortunately, as I said above, political agendas and shear bloody-mindedness and pride from christians (who should know better) can cloud the issues. I hope it's not beyond the Bob McCroskie's of the christian world to seek a bit of forgiveness on this one?
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I haven't followed the whole affair with detailed interest, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't S59 get ammended, not repealed? It still exists, doesn't it, just in a form that says that force for the purposes of correction is not allowed.
I keep hearing people (sometimes people who really should know what they're talking about) saying "since S59 was repealed..." and wondering if I've got it wrong or if they have.
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Russell
I thought we had to use our real names to post on your blog. Would International Observer have sent this drivel if his/her real name was printed?
My thinking Christian friends are embarrassed by the 'International Obervers' of this world and I'd sooner stay with this Government than be subjected to a government comprising the likes of Family First, Destiny/Family church/party who are too scared to look at themselves and their need for power over children.
The hissing behaviour towards Tom Semmens makes me ashamed. So much for the conservative elements extending freedom of speech to people who disagree with them. (Makes a mockery of their support for National's screaming about loss of freedom of speech.) They want to get back behind closed doors, where might equals right. I say shine the light on our dark side and there is no doubt that we have one. It's the only way we will progress.
It seems too many New Zealanders are afraid to even consider that some physical actions they take in their family environments can actually harm their children rather than enhance their children's futures. No parent, wanting to be the best parent they can be, should ever ignore alternative methods of raising children.
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The thing is Judy I don't think the hissers were card carrying church goers - just "mainstream" New Zealanders who been sold a crock - but to be sold something you have to first want to buy it, and the deep arrogance of a lot of our middle class over this issue has been disturbing to see.
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Would International Observer have sent this drivel if his/her real name was printed?
Hi Judy. IO is a PA System regular, even while he doesn't post under his own name, he does post enough that other regulars have got to know him, if you know what I mean.
His post above was sarcasm, so maybe you could read it again with that in mind.
Of course, sarcasm only works if it's obvious to the reader. (I like the old faux HTML </sarcasm> tags.)
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Thanks Robyn
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There is a major flow-on effect from the whole debacle that affects most families. The awareness and monitoring of possible child abuse by teachers, educational, medical, mental health professionals means their attitudes and everyday practice are geared towards this.
Families can face enormous, complex stresses that are not about children being abused. Some professionals appear to believe that ANY problem behaviour is caused by abuse. If the family can actually prove they are not abusive (and how exactly does one prove it?), they will simply be labelled inadequate and not eligible for real, practical help. There are very few specialist child and adolescent psychologists, or proper behavioural therapists in NZ. To get such help, you must be in crisis.
So, those of us with difficulties other than abuse get no resources or professional help. If you've been a good parent, you will not be supported and helped in a practical, useful manner, when problems arise, as they inevitably do.
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Because we all know the Lesbian Witches currently running this country hate Jesus.
More fun than a Plunket coffee morning...
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In Judy's defense. IO's sarcasm sounds all to real these days.
If IO was a new poster than a lot of us would have thought he was being genuine.
I don't use my real name, because I'm lazy and can't be asked changing my login. Besides I'm hardly a troll. -
Dave's blog post somehow doesn't make me feel any better. In fact, though it appears to defend Bishop, it damns her with faint praise and paints a picture of an extremely poor domestic environment for which she bears a large responsibility.
I don't believe that the perceived infringement of the rights of adults offsets the great benefits that this legislative amendment brings us. As Russell said earlier, violence breeds violence. It cannot be justified, even when it may be forgiven.
I imagine that Dave and many of his rhetorical opponents have a similar belief: that we have a duty to our descendants to break the cycle of violence - but differ in how it should be achieved. Should we trust that parents will always do the right thing? That's not a policy. We don't trust that people won't murder each other or speed or drink drive. How do we ask people to stop beating their kids when violence towards children is legal, or can be legally justified?
I was physically disciplined as a child - by my parents and by my schoolteachers. I'm not at all bitter about it, and I didn't turn out so bad. But is that because of the beatings, or in spite of them?
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Russell, I didn't remove that post from my blog. I changed my blog due to a stuff up.<a href=" http://big-newsdummy.blogspot.com/2006/07/son-breaks-riding-crop-mums-nose-post.html"> The post is here</a>. Can you please edit your post...
Done.
I assume you had me in mind. No I`m not quiet, you know that. I just dont break court supression on my blog, thats all. Are you aware that you are the first person to publicly break court suppression over Barbara Bishop as you have linkied the two cases together.
All the reporting up to last week's sentencing, including yours, has linked the two (three, including the allegation of assault against the daughter) cases, and I can't imagine any interested person wouldn't continue to make the link. That said, I don't want to breach an order. Can you email me to discuss it?
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yep.
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hey everyone,
finn higgins is a regular poster here on PA System, but this past monday he disappeared around 7pm.
his partner is understandably worried about him, so i'm putting out word on her behalf.
it's thought that he might have disappeared to auckland. we're hoping that is the case.
finn is 26 years old, medium height, slim build, dark brown hair.
he was wearing cargo pants and a black teeshirt, barefoot. he is in need of medical assistance.
if you've seen him either get in touch with his partner, the police, or someone who can contact her. if you know where he is please ask him to contact home.
thanks
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Righto. If you read (or re-read) the post, you'll see I've removed significant parts of it, because I can see they may have breached an earlier suppression order.
This bugs me greatly, because it effectively protects Bob McCoskrie in particular from his own lack of honesty. If find his hypocrisy quite despicable.
I'll leave it up to people who have relayed Barbara Bishop's false accounts of the case which led to her jail sentence to consider what their own ethical response should be, now that the court has made its decision.
I'd be grateful if readers could avoid mentioning previous cases, even though it's not difficult to work out what they might have been.
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Hmm... this is all abit much to take in. I see that on the FF website, that they are saying, "Family First has never commented on this case (although we are aware of the history of the family), and based on the facts reported, completely understand and support the verdict. We are pretty certain that Kiro has a case of 'mistaken identity' - but it does reveal her paranoia over our existence!"
But if your reference to Bob's interview on Radio Rhema is correct, then it seems his views and the organisation he controls are very different. Hmm again.
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There are all sorts of reasons why some people have to remain anonymous - e.g. people in certain industries are specifically barred by contract from attributable public comment (anonymity is generally the friend of free speech, such as when voting...)
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Not to mention the odd confidentiality clause in an out-of-court settlement when one might still want to discuss certain issues without having to quote Francis Urquhart in every post.
(OK, here it is: "You might very well think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.")
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I haven't followed the whole affair with detailed interest, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't S59 get ammended, not repealed? It still exists, doesn't it, just in a form that says that force for the purposes of correction is not allowed.
I keep hearing people (sometimes people who really should know what they're talking about) saying "since S59 was repealed..." and wondering if I've got it wrong or if they have.
You're entirely correct, Josh. Section 59 of the Crimes Act 1961 was amended, not repealed. Behold, the section in its current form.
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Maybe I missed it but does this most recent conviction against Barbara Bishops mean she has had all of her children (step, future or otherwise) removed from her care?
Thoughts are with Finn & his family
Kia kaha -
I have nothing to say re the original post - I just wanted to send my thoughts to Finn's beloveds. I hope you find him safe and sound, soon.
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