Hard News: Occupy: Don't call it a protest
311 Responses
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Hilary Stace, in reply to
I would say the average age at OW is quite young, or at least they certainly look it. They are making a virtue of not being a spokesperson for anyone or anything apart from themselves. I think they debate these issues quite extensively at their twice daily general assemblies. There seems to be a lot of discussing going on, face to face or in groups, which almost seems a lost art.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I love how various commentators of various stripe try to maintain that ‘the occupy movement’ is coextensive with the people in various camps in various cities. Who are they trying to kid? It’s interesting seeing who still thinks they’re better off serving other people’s interests. Who still thinks we’re all gullible.
Pause while I look up coextensive.
Clearly, different conditions pertain in different places. But the rhetoric of consensus etc and the general grievances are shared along with the name. The result is a genuinely different style of protest – to the extent that we are asked not to regard it as a protest at all.
Bernard Hickey’s colleague Alex Tarrant wrote a furious post about plans expressed on Facebook to occupy the Reserve Bank in Wellington. In his view, which I think is correct, the Reserve Bank has actually shielded us from the worst of the global financial calamity. Its role is democratically enshrined. And anyone who thinks the RBNZ is a fan of the financialisation of the global economy should probably read Alan Bollard’s book.
I have a terrible feeling that whoever called for that occupation copped the idea from calls for the abolition of the US Federal Reserve. Which of course have been coming from the libertarian Paul-bots who’ve got involved in the US Occupy actions.
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Sacha, in reply to
the libertarian Paul-bots who’ve got involved in the US Occupy actions
That venn diagram post seems to fit well here. (h/t Lew)
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I would say the average age at OW is quite young, or at least they certainly look it. They are making a virtue of not being a spokesperson for anyone or anything apart from themselves. I think they debate these issues quite extensively at their twice daily general assemblies. There seems to be a lot of discussing going on, face to face or in groups, which almost seems a lost art.
That's great -- and it mirrors trends that have been going on for a while in the "unconference" sector. Maybe that's a good way of looking at it, actually.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
That venn diagram post seems to fit well here. (h/t Lew)
Damn. I meant to put that in the post. Thanks for bringing it up.
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merc,
The Federal Reserve is an entirely different beast to our Reserve Bank, for a start it's privately owned.
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Sacha, in reply to
the "unconference" sector
sounds organised :)
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Carol Stewart, in reply to
They are making a virtue of not being a spokesperson for anyone or
I'm enjoying Doonesbury's take on it all.
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Islander, in reply to
Doonesbury...I take one every morning for continued sanity & my belief that the USA is rather larger than its politicians & robber-barons.
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BenWilson, in reply to
All the usual suspects trying their usual tricks. Then looking down the barrel perplexed when all they hear is a 'click'. Is it a click? As some guy explained 'that Gramsci shit', the gun's in each of our heads.
You're reminding me of Rage Against the Machine lyrics. Bullet in the Head. 15 years too early.
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Paul Campbell, in reply to
Meanwhile, Occupy Wellington is being asked to move for the rugby parade. And they're handling it sensibly:
Unlike in Dunedin where drunken rugby fans twice tried to set fire to tents on Sunday night
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Carol Stewart, in reply to
Me too, Islander. My daily Doonesbury dose is probably the main reason I subscribe to the DomPost..
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
Most individual cops I’ve met are fine, some good value even, but put them all together to make decisions and something weird happens…
True, sometimes,I have met individual pricks too.
It was good to see two of our top cops out on the street on Sunday night making the comment that “those people over there for instance, we could arrest them but sometimes it’s better to just keep an eye on it and let them enjoy themselves”
A more flexible approach by the Police is having a positive effect and gaining them much needed respect and the increase in use of diversion has had an impact on the crime statistics too.
All the time National is telling us that their “tough on crime” stance is what is making that difference.
Nactionals “three strikes” and leaden fist in an iron glove attitude will only lead to more marginalised people in jail and more people owing “fines” and “Court costs”.
And another thing while I am ranting.
“For a Brighter Future”? WTF? For a bunch of incompetent dullards that would make a Toc H lamp look bright that takes the biscuit.
I would like to see a journalist, if we still have such animals in Aotearoa, ask one of our so called leaders just what that is supposed to mean. I, for one, find that lame slogan not only pathetic but insulting.
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Islander, in reply to
(O dear - quote function apparently not working...)
I get my fix from Slate- but however, it is surely another excellent USA daily cartoon series eh?
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Bernard Hickey’s colleague Alex Tarrant wrote a furious post about plans expressed on Facebook to occupy the Reserve Bank in Wellington.
I would have thought the other building across the road would be a more appropriate target, rather than the RBNZ. After all, the BRT's key players hail from that same building. Tarrant, in his post, seems to agree:
And it doesn’t require one to be a rocket scientist to figure out which government agency would be involved with at least some of those decisions outlined about. It seems the Occupy The Terrace group chose the wrong side of the Terrace to protest on.
The Treasury (the government’s central policy agency) at number 1 The Terrace would be, in my humble opinion, a much better target for the group to camp outside and voice its protest at (I even think there’s a nice grass patch there where they can pitch their tents and even plant a garden).
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merc,
The Govt. does borrow off private banks here in NZ, very recently actually, just saying.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
I have a terrible feeling that whoever called for that occupation copped the idea from calls for the abolition of the US Federal Reserve. Which of course have been coming from the libertarian Paul-bots who’ve got involved in the US Occupy actions.
Sorry, Russell, but that's the downside of mushy populism. The Reserve Bank is an easy target and I really don't think you can fairly put that all on evil Rand-droids.
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
Um:
"... its authority is derived from the U.S. Congress and is subject to congressional oversight. Additionally, the members of the Board of Governors, including its chairman and vice-chairman, are chosen by the President and confirmed by Congress. Thus the Federal Reserve has both private and public aspects. The U.S. Government receives all of the system's annual profits, after a statutory dividend of 6% on member banks' capital investment is paid, and an account surplus is maintained..."
That doesn't sound like "privately owned" to me. But then, if one is paranoid enough, one can believe anything. It's owned by the I11umin4t1, or the Elders of Zion. Banks don't have to pay interest on money "created" through fractional reserve lending. The Queen of England's a lizard. Etc.
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Hilary Stace, in reply to
My understanding is that the group planning to occupy the Reserve Bank are an entirely separate group who had been planning this for Guy Fawkes day since before the NZ Occupy movement started. I'm not sure of the relationship between the groups these days but the Occupy movement seems pretty inclusive so they have probably come under that umbrella - and for many people one bank is much the same as any other oppressive financial corporate. I think Alex's anger might be partially due to personal association with the RB.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
I think Alex’s anger might be partially due to personal association with the RB.
You know, Hilary, it might be nice to pay Alex the courtesy of not imputing bad faith or a personal agenda to him. FFS, I’m right with people who were heinously pissed off at the sight of bank executives with one hand out for corporate welfare, signing their multi-million dollar bonus cheques with the other and kicking their employees out the door with Prada hob-nailed boots on.
But perhaps we should try learning something from history. I’m sure ideological purists would have been happy to see the BNZ collapse in the 80’s. I’m not so sure my parent’s savings going up in flames would have been a good thing.
ETA: Which is not to say, Hillary, that fiscal policy setting or the Reserve Bank Act are holy writ. But an intelligent debate around legislation from our democratically elected legislature is a more worthwhile exercise than mindless theatrics. Or the kind of toxic ignorance we're seeing from the Tea Bagged right in the United States, who - to be brutally frank - don't give a flying fuck what misery they leave in their wake as long as their ideological purity remains unsullied as they do down that uppity Marxist rag-head.
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The National's "Brighter Future" is starting to sound like Muldoon's "light at the end of the tunnel" - in the latter case it was a train coming in the other direction.
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Mike Graham, in reply to
Sorry - wrong thread. It was meant for the PREFU one.
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DexterX, in reply to
Bernard's suggestions are very reasonable.
I don't feel there is much of any worth in Bernard's list.
The list if executed creates, to my mind, a super socialist state that rewards the failure of governance with a larger tax take and thus a greater buffer for bureaucratic incompetence and wastage.
If taxing land is an aswer then tax the air people breath as well and introduce a poll tax so that you get everyone that draw breath at least once.
The only item I would support is item 2.
Item 3 made me fall of my chair - join the European Push - yes that are so united at present - I hope I live long enough to have the Europeans actually meet a decision deadline - I would live long life and hopefully eventually prosper.
IItem 7 makes me laugh - so the USA is politcally Bankrupt and China is all "Honky Dory" so to speak.
Although I don't support the Bernard Hickey wish list - it is like an essay on what I did with my holiday - I do find merit in this clip.
It would be good to see Obama get another term and bring in some major reforms to the operation of Financial Markets and Institutions, I hope they are working on this in ernest right now, and that any such reforms if they prove worthy are taken on by Europe and the so called West.
The American people and the unreast in Europe will hopefully drive a "change" of sorts.
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Richard Grevers, in reply to
“For a Brighter Future”? WTF?
I was assuming that it referred to the rosy glow as we kill the planet by burning Southland lignite
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"The radicals claim a bigger, better demand: "real" democracy. The ability to set policy is worth much more than any particular policy, and democracy is the institutional setup that gives everybody the ability to participate in setting policy."
Via Chris Blattman, a structural analysis of why their lack of claims matters. "How political economy theory can explain OWS".
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