Hard News: Out of the Groove
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Government policy on supporting nation's art and culture, pre- Helen Clark:
1. Stage photo op with All Blacks.
2. Repeat 1. -
merc,
Che always with the shrooms, there is so much more to us if you would just talk with us.
Disclaimer, as you know Che I was born East Coast but have all but completed the movement Westward, the final taxi being the very last. -
I was never convinced by this public youth radio idea. We had publically-funded youth radio in the Old Country and it was trash. Radio One had John Peel but pretty-well nobody else. The other presenters were just as bad as the commercial stations.
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the final taxi being the very last.
gold-top taxi?
right, back to work. adieu.
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merc,
Simon G, important point you make yes, I support myself and my family, with help from my family of course, but I don't begrudge others getting grants, now, after therapy and introspection. And look I can post poems on a political blog, under past rightwing govts, you think I'd be posting them on Kiwiblog?
Less marginalization for artists (creative people, whatever) is a good thing and that's what Helen signals loud and clear. -
OH! OH! Linky plz
Zamora Everton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue99DLrF6rkWigan goals:
http://tinyurl.com/2h67p3 -
Oh dear, are there others whose spiritual home is Upton Park?
Yes, I think there's nothing else for it, West Ham are going to have to become the Official team of Public Address.
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Less marginalization for artists (creative people, whatever) is a good thing and that's what Helen signals loud and clear.
I always prefer what I find on the margins....
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more [[http://www.nypost.com/seven/05032007/gossip/pagesix/easily_scared_pagesix_.htm|weird guitar guys]
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because it's not about trying to make a living
I take your point as far as it goes - nobody becomes a professional musician (or anything else in the arts) for the job security. It just becomes depressing to read another obit of a musician or writer who dies in poverty after a long life of being screwed like a two-bob hooker. Sometimes, I think it's much easier to fall for the romantic stereotype of the tortured, starving artiste when you've got a full belly, a roof over your head and the certainty of a pay cheque at the end of the month.
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ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
more weird guitar guys
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And why didn't anyone in Split Enz - who I think it's fair comment to say are all very strong personaities - kill one or more of their bandmates?
You got me there. I love Split Enz - my first ever gig, Napier Muni Theatre 1984. I haven't heard the doco, but I came away from Mike Chunn's book (lightweight as it was) feeling the same thing. Tim Finn seemed really highly strung and high maintenance. I think the fact that he's been involved in fisticuffs with both his brother and with Phil Judd (after he'd left the band) shows how close it must have been.
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Sometimes, I think it's much easier to fall for the romantic stereotype of the tortured, starving artiste when you've got a full belly, a roof over your head and the certainty of a pay cheque at the end of the month.
all artists should be told that they can only produce great art when they are starving, miserable, and about to end it all. They have no right to expect otherwise. After accepting this, in writing, only then are they entitled to a small government grant every now and then.
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You got me there. I love Split Enz - my first ever gig, Napier Muni Theatre 1984. I haven't heard the doco, but I came away from Mike Chunn's book (lightweight as it was) feeling the same thing. Tim Finn seemed really highly strung and high maintenance. I think the fact that he's been involved in fisticuffs with both his brother and with Phil Judd (after he'd left the band) shows how close it must have been.
so they're like every other band...
I toured with Enz twice in the early eighties as mgmt / label for the Blams, and found them to be, by then, very happy to be around..a smooth machine in which everyone knew their roles. Great fun in fact.
I suspect though, putting Tim and Judd in a van, adding poverty to the mix, and waiting would have been interesting. Judd is not easy.
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because it's not about trying to make a living
I'm reminded of a story in French actor Jean Louis Barrault's memoirs. He's at a dinner sitting beside a shipping magnate and the're not getting on. Eventually (exaggerated from memory)...
Mangate: So you (snarf) don't make much money, do you?
pause
Barrault: Do like the shipping business, then?
M: Sure.
B: Do you love it so much that, if could barely make enough money to support yourself, you would still do it?
After that, they got on famously.
Che has a point, but thinking about the RIANZ guy or whoever it was saying musicians were having to have other jobs, I have to admit I'm wondering when that didn't happen.
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Righto - I have a copy of the Real Groove story now (two actually - an email version and the mag itself arrived simultaneously).
The story in question isn't an interview with Neil, but an opinion piece by Gavin Bertram. The quotes from Neil date from October last year, just after the Music Awards (Gavin checked them with Neil, who only rephrased himself slightly. The other person quoted is promoter Angela Means.
The main argument is one that's been made before: that the government support and involvement of NZ On Air have ushered in a mainstream that is essentially aping overseas genres to get played on the radio.
This is true to some extent but I don't think Gavin really nails his point. And there a couple of really cheap shots: notably the the suggestion that a single bad live review, in an online magazine, of The Checks somehow invalidates the fact that their UK label has funded an Ian Broudie-produced album and a year's expenses - because, evidently, it thinks The Checks might be a success.
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I take your point as far as it goes - nobody becomes a professional musician (or anything else in the arts) for the job security. It just becomes depressing to read another obit of a musician or writer who dies in poverty after a long life of being screwed like a two-bob hooker.
I certainly know the feeling! It's very interesting to read the comments in this thread - definatly got value out of your posts Simon!
I've been playing round the country for about 12 years now - and a long time ago (actually while I was still a teen) I realised that I'd have to be incredibly lucky to be able to be a professional musican - so I made the most mature decision that I ever did during my teens and went out and got a job. Didn't stop me playing music - a couple of years ago I was juggling 4 bands and a full time government job (turned out to be a bit much and had to drop 2 of the bands :-).
Working a day job has always provided me with a "reality check" for my artistic delusions - but it doesn't stop me trying to promote my projects - just means I don't have to rely on them being financially sucessful. Most of the people I play with (and know) have much the same approach. Also not being financially tied to my artistic endevours means that I don't have to worry about the "commercial viability" of my music (anyone who's applied for NZonAir grant will recognise that phrase).
For me it's always been about the writing and performing of music - and the feedback that I get from people who have seen or heard us.
I'm not a big fan of NZ music month - and generally we take the month off or just spend the time in the practise room!
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Something has drained NZ music of its uniqueness in the last few years. Some guy from a band was on Nat Radio this morning and he put his finger on it, NZ bands feel they need to compete with overseas acts. They do to be commercially successful I guess, but as Russel says, it's nigh on impossible to make a crust on music in NZ anyway.
I'd be curious (but not nosey) to know if old-timers like Chris Knox, David Kilgour, Robert Scott, Graeme Jeffries etc make a reasonable living playing on the fringes of the international altenative scene?
Or at least as good a living as a successful mainsteam band like Elemenop?
At risk of preaching to the choir, I know which I prefer (and thanks emusic - Dead C, Cakekitchen, even Pointsman all available to some extent)
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Speaking from the perspective of somebody who trained as a musician in the UK and went through the whole process of having the idea of riches, fame and "the scene" drummed out of my head by teachers who actually made a living from playing, I'd just like to point out that there's actually a good reason for musicians to complain about the way "New Zealand music" is funded.
The emphasis in terms of funding delivery seems to be supporting an industry and a popular culture - not musical validity or the ability for a musician to actually be able to make a living. Working conditions for musicians who actually want to get paid in this country are abominable. The union is - last time I checked - one guy who works from home under the umbrella of a fruit packing union or something, and he mostly sells overpriced insurance that you can get cheaper in the form of a business policy anyway. Some friends of mine in Auckland recently had a gig where an audience member smashed several thousand dollars worth of gear, and then at the end of the night the venue owner refused to pay them for the gig until they re-arranged his bar furniture for him. I've known professional, working musicians from the UK come out here and then give up and go home because the money is so poor - there's a pervasive attitude nearly everywhere that, y'know, musicians should love music so much they want to work for free.
That's not the case overseas. Hell, even the bands that get famous here don't get decent compensation for it. A brother of a friend of mine made it big a few years back. I won't name the band. They won awards, were up on the stage at the big expensive ceremonies with all the names hobnobbing... had #1 singles... and then a year or two later the entire band was living in his mum's spare room because they were too broke to live elsewhere unless they gave up playing.
Thanks to a concerted effort and a lot of public spending there is now a music industry in NZ, but I'm not convinced it does anything else than sweats musicians too bloody-minded or sub-par to leave the country so that somebody else can get the money.
Not that any of that stops people playing, of course, which is perhaps the problem.
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not to mention guns n roses selling out in auckland. whats up with that? west auckland has a lot to answer for
The bit that's curious is why anyone who liked GNR when they were any good would bother seeing them now. If you want to see GNR members doing great hard rock you can go and see Velvet Revolver. Why waste your hard earned cash on Axl?
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I toured with Enz twice in the early eighties as mgmt / label for the Blams
Now that would have been great. When I saw the Enz in 84, the support act were (I'll never forget it)...Grey Parade. Who?
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I think the ship has already sailed on the existence of a Jon Stewart cult. I am such a dorky fangirl about him.
I spent a little time in North America last year, and perhaps half of Americans 'get him' and his humour and the format. About half of them are lefties. That 25% or so, really seemed think he's the best thing since sliced bread.
His methods remind me of something not very American - Rowan Atkinson in Blackadder (not Mr Bean!). The way a facial expression of disbelief or a raised eyebrow can say everything that needs to be said about a video clip that's just been shown. It's got a subtlety about it that you normally wouldn't associate with American humour stereotypes.
As a NZer it's my four times a week reminder that not everything the American political system is corruption and deceit, that while there might not be a lot going on there that I'd consider to be good, at least a whole heap of Americans can see that as well - they really are fellow travellers!
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The main argument is one that's been made before: that the government support and involvement of NZ On Air have ushered in a mainstream that is essentially aping overseas genres to get played on the radio.
No, I think its much more than that...its the diversion of funds to projects inside the system, because the system validates that funding and nothing else. I can think of many examples, some in the last month or so.
I have huge respect for what NZOA, and in particular Brendan Smyth, has achieved in the past decade and a half but if any agency was screaming out for radical reform....
I could say a lot more but I'm going to edit myself.
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Also not being financially tied to my artistic endevours means that I don't have to worry about the "commercial viability" of my music (anyone who's applied for NZonAir grant will recognise that phrase).
Interesting comment; I (slightly) know a commercially successful Wellington painter who went from working as a postie to full-time artist. He went back to the part-time postie gig because while he could make enough off his art to support himself (pretty unusual, I would guess) he hated how he found himself staring at canvas thinking "rent cheque."
He's been, he tells me, much happier paying the rent with his mail round and enjoying the financial rewards of his art as an extra.
And I know a lot of musicians who , in a similar vein to you, perform around Wellington pretty regularly and have day jobs.
that the government support and involvement of NZ On Air have ushered in a mainstream that is essentially aping overseas genres to get played on the radio.
I'm kind of confused as to how it's destorying NZ music, though. I mean, you can play something different and be broke (like you could before) or play something more mainstream and be less broke (not so much before). It's not like anyone forces you to change your art (unless NZ On Air have firearms that I'm unaware of). You change your art because you want to ditch the day job and still have the money.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Something has drained NZ music of its uniqueness in the last few years.
Sorry, that's an easy thing to say, but I don't agree at all.
My feelings about "barbecue reggae" (Salmonella, Freddies, Black Seeds et al) are distinctly mixed, but I think there's no denying it's an indigenous genre.
The various James Milne projects (including the Silver Scrolls finalist the Reduction Agents) are pure Kiwi quirk. I don't think you can say the Ruby Suns or the Brunettes are aping overseas bands, and SJD and the Phoenix Foundation certainly aren't. The Nudie Suits invitation to tour Europe with the Magic Numbers is very cool.
What you can say is that the bands who target themselves at radioplay aren't the ones who succeed at any level overseas. Even Evermore - who always get left out of these discussions - seem to be doing their own thing.
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