Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: So far from trivial

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  • Russell Brown,

    The reason that this case is headlining is not because it's a case of justice gone wrong, it's because Veitch is what passes for a celebrity in this country.

    No, if it had gone to court, the victim would almost certainly have had name suppression; the manner in which it could have been reported would have been tightly circumscribed, and based on evidence given in court.

    It's open-slather because that didn't happen.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22712 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    __So why is he the one who has to go even if she started it?__

    As long as *someone* has to go, minimising harm dictates that you remove the person statistically likely to cause the most damage.

    I won't get into the argument over whether it's a good idea, but "minimising harm" does not dictate that you remove the person statistically likely to cause the most damage. I cannot see that in such a situation it would be other than neutral as to whom should be removed.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3202 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    you have Women's refuge and Rape crises for support, But only if you are female

    I am truly interested, Steven, in why you think those two institutions exist. Do you think they sprang, fully formed, contextless, into our society for absolutely no reason?

    (I am starting to get a distinct whiff of MRA from this thread... ewww.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    I think the media needs to take a good hard look at itself...

    If newspaper editors aren't already ashamed of themselves, I struggle to imagine what it might take.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    I am starting to get a distinct whiff of MRA from this thread... ewww.

    Me too, Danielle.

    Here's some more Feminism 101 - What's wrong with saying things happen to men too?

    Not exactly on point, but close enough for it to be relevant.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Anorak,

    Yep Danielle, I smell it too.

    Steven will be happy to learn that men can and do use Rape Crisis when they are victims of sexual abuse or assault.

    Men are also free to set up Men's Refuges at any time. Just like women did.

    Auckland • Since Apr 2007 • 61 posts Report Reply

  • Anorak,

    Yes, I believe the phenomenon we are witnessing is called, in the Latin, "What about teh menz???!!!".
    That's such a useful site Deborah.

    Auckland • Since Apr 2007 • 61 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    you have Women's refuge and Rape crises for support, But only if you are female

    Right on! Those women who get raped get all the breaks.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    [Section] 116 is broadly worded, and even if an assault case could not be made out, if it was confirmed that Veitch assaulted his girlfriend in any way and then paid her not to complain to the police, there is a possible case of obstruction of justice. Graeme would know better than me (you know all the pedantic ins and outs, Edge).

    If there was a conspiracy to make a payment designed to ensure that no complaint was laid, or that lies were told to police, then that might be a conspiracy to defeat justice. But note that there would need to be a conspiracy.

    What you actually want is, I suspect, section 117(d):

    Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who—
    ...
    (d) wilfully attempts in any other way to obstruct, prevent, pervert or defeat the course of justice.

    [You should ignore the other paragraphs, paragraph (d) effectively stands alone]

    Paying someone not to make a complaint, or to withdraw a complaint etc. may constitute obstruction of justice. Paying someone and them not making a complaint because of some different reason may not.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3202 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Right on! Those women who get raped get all the breaks.

    Well, you obviously haven't been raped, And nether have you Debroah, or you Danielle. So why not take your collective ignorance and fuck of.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4163 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Oh, and you to Anorak.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4163 posts Report Reply

  • Anorak,

    Cheers! I was feeling all excluded and stuff over here.

    Auckland • Since Apr 2007 • 61 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    settle, steven. out of order.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19633 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    But if it's who should be hauled away for the night because a couple were scrapping, neither's injured, and the cops got called, the default position should not be to drag away the male just because he's the male.

    You're assuming that the person is being taken away to be arrested. The police will only do that if there is some evidence of a crime committed - eg, bruising or bleeding or something. If it's just a domestic argument, yelling etc, that's not a crime. The police would tend to try and negotiate one of the two parties to go stay somewhere else for the night to cool off.

    I don't know how often that happens, or when it does happen, what percentage are men/women.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    I'm sorry, there's a list of PAS commenters who have or haven't been raped and you've checked it? That comment is way out of line.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    <quote>settle, steven. out of order.<quote>

    No, I'm not out of order, actually.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4163 posts Report Reply

  • Anorak,

    This raises the question, what happens to somebody thats been repeatedly abused, then left to deal with it alone ?

    Steven , if you are not just speaking hypothetically, there are free services that can help. Rape Crisis is a good first place to start, but Lifeline are also great. You don't have to deal with this alone.

    Auckland • Since Apr 2007 • 61 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Well, you obviously haven't been raped

    Well, heh - there was this hot Israeli kickboxer chick I met in Eilat . . .

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    <quote>Rape Crisis is a good first place to start<quote>

    You have got you be joking!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4163 posts Report Reply

  • Susannah Shepherd,

    Thanks Eddie and Graeme for clarifying the situation with regard to perverting the course of justice - I can see how a financial deal in the nature of 'compensation' is legitimately a private matter, but the thought that it's legal to strike a financial deal over whether or not a complaint will be laid (or evidence given) seems incredibly repugnant to me. I guess it would be very hard to prove the latter if good lawyers have drafted the arrangements for the former.

    And I'm not sure how people saw Veitch as some sort of good Kiwi bloke. The few times I saw him on Game of Two Halves interacting with those other paragons of civilised and non-misogynist male behaviour (Marc Ellis, I'm looking at you) I formed the distinct impression that the man was a complete dick.

    And just to get my final vent off my chest, is it *really* an excuse to claim he was tired and stressed from working two jobs with a combined income of $400,000? Who really *needs* that sort of money? And medication for exhaustion? WTF? It's called *sleep*.

    Okay, one final final vent - Tui are well out of order. I thought it was just me too until I read the thread.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2008 • 58 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Well, heh - there was this hot Israeli kickboxer chick I met in Eilat . . .

    Danyl, you are a dick-head.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4163 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Steven, I'm not trying to minimise the lack of support for men who are abused. Just questioning the wisdom of having a go at people here.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19633 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Um... is anyone else here really confused about what just happened?

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Totally, Danielle...I made my only comment over at the Fundy Post but have been following this - frequently erudite & often very insightful -thread here with fascination...and then, steven crawford

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Abuse pushes buttons for many of us, and without wanting to speak for him or expecting private declarations in this public space, I think Anorak may have been right that it is a very personal topic for Steven.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19633 posts Report Reply

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