Hard News: So far from trivial
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__I'm happy to take Russell's word for it.__
but that would be nothing to do with the position of perceived power jill mentioned earlier?
Heh. Like that would work with Deborah ...
No, it would be more like not making some stupid implication that I'm lying.
anyone would think it was a crime to check detail and strive to be well informed. I wish I had the trust and respect you have for authority figures.
Rob, if only you were doing that. But really, you've mostly been hair-splitting and trying to dream up alternative explanations; to the point where you've wound up some people enough that they've told you off. That'll happen.
The idea that the Herald would run a story saying the victim had been thrown down stairs at the house without knowing if there were even stairs at the house is bizarre.
And, sure enough, there's a large picture of Veitch bounding up the hard (and fairly steep-looking) stairs of the St Heliers house on page 3 of Saturday's NZ Herald. The story you were quibbling over is on page 1.
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And T.S. Eliot was, in my not so humble opinion, the greatest - certainly the most influential - poet and critic of the 20th century. Doesn't mitigate his repulsive anti-Semitism one whit
He was pals with Groucho, though, right? So that's at least one Jewish friend.
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I can't help but notice that we've managed to mention Veitch in the same breath as T.S. Eliot and to quibble about the steepness and hardness of the stairs at his place (Veitch's, not Eliot's - although I guess the thread is still young). Conversation sure does take you to strange places.
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I can't help but notice that we've managed to mention Veitch in the same breath as T.S. Eliot and to quibble about the steepness and hardness of the stairs at his place (Veitch's, not Eliot's - although I guess the thread is still young). Conversation sure does take you to strange places.
Indeed. But this has, perhaps unexpectedly, been that sort of issue across a range of forums. This thread has become fairly heated, and has threatened to implode a couple of times -- but hasn't.
Anyway, I hear Eliot had a batpole.
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I couldn’t read the whole Perigo article; I got to the bit where he said Veitch had exceptional talent and realised it was clearly a wind-up.
But the quite how the suggestion that Veitch be tried by the Justice system can be the brain-child of a “crazed mob” can go to print is beyond me.
Am I sensing that some people are trying to turn this into some kind of left v right battle?
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I realise that some see all this as 44 pages of pointless ranting, but there are practical insights to be had from this sort of discussion. One day you may find yourself a defendant or complainant in a trial.
The legal teams will do their best to keep PAS-types off the jury, but eventually they may run out of challenges. So your credibility will be judged by your peers; you know, talkback nutjobs, 'Your View' correspondents, Womens Weekly readers, and someone picked at random from these pages.Who would you want it to be? Robbery? Deborah? Craig?
For one rape trial it was me. And although the instructions were to avoid speculation and stick to the evidence presented (a la Robbery), in assessing "reasonable doubt' we were supposed to bring into play our 'life experience'. Which turned out to come in pretty terrifying forms. It was a harrowing experience, and obviously much more so for the complainant (if she was telling the truth) and the defendant (if she wasn't).
But presumably the point of a jury system is that each case can't simply be represented by an algorithm and solved, and the views and thought processes expressed in these (and other) pages are somehow all equally valid. And that still scares me. -
Anyway, I hear Eliot had a batpole.
Heath Ledger fell down it.
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Am I sensing that some people are trying to turn this into some kind of left v right battle?
Oh, totally. Owen McShane's bizarre offerings on Kiwiblog (including a declaration that the police should be focusing on "real" crime and not private matters such as this) were soaked in that sort of thinking. It's the Feminazis, don'cha know?
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I couldn’t read the whole Perigo article; I got to the bit where he said Veitch had exceptional talent and realised it was clearly a wind-up.
Yeah, that's gave me the shits too. The guy is into sport and has a lot of energy, that's about all I can say for him. You only have to listen to him for 5 minutes on RS in the morning and to have a clue about the subject yourself to realise how hard up RS must be.
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He was pals with Groucho, though, right? So that's at least one Jewish friend.
I wouldn't be the only one to have heard phrases like "I don't like [minority]. Except for [one individual], he/she is OK."
T. S. Eliot was a while ago, I heard a young woman spout this to a group of people last year.
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In this world, titled ladies, down-and-outs and middle class students mingle with the hard men of the Glasgow underworld. Alliances shift and change as Laidlaw tries to find Tony Veitch, a young student who may have killed the vagrant and a criminal.
Is there no end to this man's skullduggery?
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Meanwhile, off on the fringe ... Lindsay Perigo:
heh heh... Solo Passion that always makes me snigger in an unkind way.
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heh heh... Solo Passion - that always makes me snigger in an unkind way.
I think it's quite a clever name ... for a masturbation website.
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The story you were quibbling over is on page 1.
not quibbling, I'm asking to see the material you're referring to.
I want to see the original sources rather than some paraphrases.you've mostly been hair-splitting and trying to dream up alternative explanations;
no. I've been steering away from offering any alternative explanations cos I have no way of knowing anything about the situation that went on there. My so called "alternative explanations" have been alien abduction transgender. i was being ridiculous to illustrate a point.
The idea that the Herald would run a story saying the victim had been thrown down stairs at the house without knowing if there were even stairs at the house is bizarre.
did I say there weren't any stairs in his house? no, i asked if anyone knew if there were stairs there cos I was miffed by a story from unnamed source being reported as news before it had been verified by anyone, not because as you seem to imply I'm cheering for veitch, but cos I think news reporting in nz and the modern day is seriously lacking.Police reports, court documents, medical reports, these are respectable sources of information.
I've mentioned it before but I'm not a fan of self appointed authorities setting themselves up and holding court and jill did touch on a very valid point which you did have to shut her down on quickly, because it does challenge you and the media empire that is RB inc. people on here do seek your approval and treat you like the king of the empire, and when you tell them off they comply apologetically (see earlier in this thread), as opposed to other PA contributors like Graham Reid etc all who treat their columns and resulting discussion like a living room conversation.
PA is great because you as a self appointed news and views person can say something and theoretically I can challenge that directly to the person that made the statement and it other people can read that challenge and your response and make their minds up for themselves. I've said some honest and heartfelt things on PA and some people have 'got' and appreciated the alternative viewpoint. That's cool by me, I can take the resulting heat, although I'll admit its not easy to speak your mind in public.
No, it would be more like not making some stupid implication that I'm lying.
I'm not implying your lying, I didn't imply you're lying. lying implies intent to mislead, I was asking for a friggin' link or source as I hadn't come across the information you were quoting. you're normally pretty good at that sort of thing in other posts, here you didn't introduce material till well into the discussion and then act like we're all idiots for not being privy to it.
And, sure enough, there's a large picture of Veitch bounding up the hard (and fairly steep-looking) stairs of the St Heliers house on page 3 of Saturday's NZ Herald
you say that like its clever but it comes across as childish (something that I'm not above myself, sometimes). I wanted to consider the new development that he threw kirsten down the stairs (for the reasons outlined above re unnamed sources) and all you had to do was include a link or source to your statement that there had been a picture. But you'd rather make it into some point scoring exercise so you can prove that anyone who disagrees with you (and I don't think I have been disagreeing with you in this thread, just past ones) has no merit, as I would probably do if I was trying to set myself up as some voice of authority angling for paid employment in such a field (media 7 etc).
I get where you're coming from russell, I just don't think its the only way of archiving what you're after as demonstrated by some of your PA co-inhabitants.
No hard feelings etc and there is respect there for you from me for your achievements. I hope you're noting I'm making attempts to discuss quietly and rationally, (in real life I like to swear a lot more, take the piss constantly etc, I've really tried to reign that in).If you really think I've got no valid point to make go ahead and ban the ip address. i'm sure my partner and my work would appreciate me spending less time writing to "someone who is wrong on the internet" as per the cartoon you posted a while back which im sure many of us laughed at but winced at as well.
Funnily enough (as in not funny at all) I've had some serious personal experiences with violence as victim and victim supporter. Aside from the odd attempted beating from complete strangers a girl friend was abducted and raped and I got to stand face to face with the perpetrator in court. He looked like any member of the public you might see at an up market bar, he didn't have pointy horns or anything. I've seen violence in my surrounding family and have friends who have dealt with DV. I know the victims and I know the people who did it. Yes I have a few thoughts on the issue, it seems many shades of grey to me, I'm sorry if that clashes with other peoples views on it.
I'm not going to comment on the veitch thing any more, but I am available to answer cheap shots and digs, and to correct unfair or misrepresenting statements about myself or what I've said.
(eg the mafia style comment referred to a mafia style assault perpetrated by a loved one, ie both domestic and cruel calculated and merciless, not an either or thing)
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I think it's quite a clever name ... for a masturbation website.
Absolutely! :) (Sniggers in an unkind way once more).
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"Owen McShane's bizarre offerings "
All that was needed - Owen McShane can only grasp the wrong end of any stick.
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Owen McShane can only grasp the wrong end of any stick.
Please forgive me for adding to the sniggers from llew's direction at this point. Sometimes the right thing is posted at the precisely wrong time.
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"Solo Passion", spooky, that's like "Sleeping Dogs" was to 1981.
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Timing is everything
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Oh lawd. Did this thread just turn into another 'Why Robbery Thinks Russell is a Tryhard Media Emperor and Has No Clothes' argument? Because honestly? I don't think I can bear it.
Robbery. Dude. Let this Long National Nightmare of Needling Russell end! Pleasepleaseplease... I'm begging you here. We know. We know. He's trying to take over Teh Media, and he doesn't know as much about it as you, and he doesn't allow for the huddled masses of alternative viewpoints yearning to breathe free on PAS, and we're all obsequious toadies to The Cult of Russell, we get it, we get it. My *god*. :)
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Right, that's it. We're setting a date.
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Let this Long National Nightmare of Needling Russell end! Pleasepleaseplease...
I was addressing his point, I've replied, I said I haven't been at odds with what he's said on here, I've given him respect for what he's achieved,
and there is respect there for you from me for your achievements.
drop it and go back to the more serious discussion at hand, violence in NZ.
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He was pals with Groucho, though, right? So that's at least one Jewish friend.
Meh... Vriginia Woolf had a real live Jewish husband, which doesn't make her casual Jew-baiting (and that of her social circle) any less distasteful. You can come up with all kinds of extenuations -- that, distasteful as it may be to contemporary sensibilities, Elliot and Woolf both came from backgrounds where that kind of bullshit was commonplace. And you'd be right. You could point at any number of Jewish friends and so on. And you'd be right. You could say that compared to Ezra Pound -- who wasn't so much a few sandwiches short of a full picnic basket, as a picnic basket where everything was laced with arsenic -- they were saintly,
My point was that I don't think any degree of talent gives you a pass on just being a decent human being. I know that's not where you were going, giovanni, but damn it people are. And they really should know better.
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Oh lawd. Did this thread just turn into another 'Why Robbery Thinks Russell is a Tryhard Media Emperor and Has No Clothes' argument? Because honestly? I don't think I can bear it.
Russell has no clothes? We could get him some jorts. Danielle, shall we get him some jorts?
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OK - what are jorts? I could resort to google I suppose.
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