Hard News: The Honours
265 Responses
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just a big ego wank for the cracka ass knobs
quite
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All humans are equally human.
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I love living in the middle ages.I think everyone should be knighted next year.
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<tugs forelock>
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.I think everyone should be knighted next year.
be knighted or beknighted?
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I thought it was great when Sir Tristram got one.
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I love living in the middle ages.I think everyone should be knighted next year.
But if everyone is knighted, where will they get their men-at-arms to fulfill their feudal obligations?
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The honours list is always political as the office is part of the PM's department and the list has to be approved by Cabinet. This might indicate why Margaret Wilson and Michael Cullen weren't on it, even though retired speakers and senior cabinet ministers traditionally get something.
Speakers do traditionally get something. However, I don't believe tradition dictates they ought to get something every year.
Perhaps Margaret Wilson received a DCNZM a year ago. And then declined the option of changing it to a DNZM (with the accompanying Damehood) last August.
You know ... just maybe.
And maybe National was being so political about it all that the only people they wanted to give the Order of New Zealand to were Roger Douglas acolytes like Helen Clark...
You're right. It's appalling that National have so politicised appointments to our honours lists =)
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I thought it was great when Sir Tristram got one
rofflenui
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The honours list is always political as the office is part of the PM's department and the list has to be approved by Cabinet. This might indicate why Margaret Wilson and Michael Cullen weren't on it, even though retired speakers and senior cabinet ministers traditionally get something.
Margaret Wilson did "get something" -- along with Steve Maharey -- in last year's New Year honours list. I know the current government is evil incarnate as far as you're concerned, Hillary, but if the whole thing really is that partisan then I've got to say they're fucking up big time.
Perhaps you'd also like to share with us what "services to the National Party" were rendered by Helen Clark? They must have been slightly more extensive than losing the 2008 general election to be worth the ONZ.
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3410,
Perhaps you'd also like to share with us what "services to the National Party" were rendered by Helen Clark?
You are hereby banned from further use of fallacious argument. ;)
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Fran responds, with reflections on her dealings over the years with the latest crop, with Doug Myers and Helen Clark as examples that have polarised discussion.
What is it in the national psyche that some Kiwis cannot celebrate, if only for a couple of days each year, the achievements of outstanding New Zealanders?
And apparently Myers may believe in society after all:
"I got a CBE years ago and I remember going down and thinking what was wonderful about it was the numbers of people from small country towns who'd done public service for a very long time and been recognised and came down to Wellington and had their families with them.
I thought it's a very binding social function."
But wait, here's our part in undermining what is right and good:
The mainstream media also serve a binding function by not using the honours list as an easy opportunity to reprise all the controversies, skeletons-in-cupboards, and, black-spots that usually accompany lives that are led in the public domain. Instead, we dwell on the high spots.
Out in the blogosphere it is a different matter. Right-wing blogs are apoplectic over Clark's honour. Some lefties are out-raged that Myers has been elevated.
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Out in the blogosphere it is a different matter. Right-wing blogs are apoplectic over Clark's honour. Some lefties are out-raged that Myers has been elevated.
So this is a lefty blog? I'm outta here. It's only 'polarising' because it makes people question what we hold as 'honourable' in this here society, which surely is a good thing.
The fact remains that if at a very basic level you compare the two mentioned above, one is the first female Prime Minister in New Zealand and the first to lead a Labour party into three terms, while the other ran a successful billion dollar corporation that profited from people's propensity to drink large quantities of alcohol.
Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised when these are given similar standing in this country of ours, but we can be, IMhO, a bit disappointed.
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You are hereby banned from further use of fallacious argument. ;)
3410: Fair enough. But if you're seriously going to argue that the honours process is fatally tainted by partisanship, I'd love to see some evidence. I know John Key is Satan incarnate to plenty (and not all on the left either), but really...
But hey, if folks want to keep taking cheap shots and scoring own goals, what else is teh interwebz for?
So this is a lefty blog?
No, but the usual suspects over at Kiwibog are living all the way down to expectations. And, no -- I'm not providing a link, because some of the chatter is seriously vile, and I'm not going to dignify it with linky love.
The fact remains that if at a very basic level you compare the two mentioned above, one is the first female Prime Minister in New Zealand and the first to lead a Labour party into three terms, while the other ran a successful billion dollar corporation that profited from people's propensity to drink large quantities of alcohol.
And Helen Clark lead a government that was quite happy to profiteer off addicts to the tune of billions of dollars in excise tax on tobacco and alcohol, so I'm wondering if that moral high horse is about ready for the knackers yard.
And dare I say this, but there are those among us who don't think a three-term Labour government is anything to celebrate -- let alone reward with New Zealand's highest honour. But fuck it, good on Helen anyway.
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Instead, we dwell on the high spots.
It would be pretty rad if they could also dwell on the low spots. You know, showing all sides of the issue and whatnot.
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I'm not providing a link, because some of the chatter is seriously vile, and I'm not going to dignify it with linky love.
Thanks for the heads up. Plenty going on here to keep my attention away from it.
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I see that being a more polite commentator is not one of Craig's New Year resolutions.
We live in a pretty benign democracy and most politicians are reasonable people. That doesn't stop me noting inequity, hypocrisy, oppression and abuses of power in our political systems.
By the way Craig, did you ever find out whether there will be toilets on the new electric Waikanae trains, or is that money now going into a couple of inches of concrete expressway?
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I thought that was politer
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I see that being a more polite commentator is not one of Craig's New Year resolutions
Hillary: Much more polite that the initial draft, and if you want to get Miss Manners with me perhaps you'd care to withdraw and apologise for the insinuation that Margaret Wilson was snubbed for partisan reasons? I know the current government is evil incarnate in your book, but that was well out of order -- and demonstrably untrue.
By the way Craig, did you ever find out whether there will be toilets on the new electric Waikanae trains, or is that money now going into a couple of inches of concrete expressway?
I did ask my partner to comment on that comment -- who is in a much better position that I to offer an informed comment, given that he's worked in the rail industry for forty five years and counting -- and he declined because he felt that he couldn't without releasing information he (was) privy to but which isn't in the public domain. He's still rather underwhelmed about the quality of reporting on rail issues, though, and I can't say he's wrong.
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I thought that was politer
Yeah, sorry, I just spent a good couple of minutes trying to find the comment of Craig's Hilary was objecting to.
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And Helen Clark lead a government that was quite happy to profiteer off addicts to the tune of billions of dollars in excise tax on tobacco and alcohol
Was that really profiteering, or were the users contributing to their downstream costs?
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Someone tell Fran that even the MSM are discussing who gets honoured. Yes, awards went to senior desk-jockeys rather than those who actually got injured fighting the coolstore fire.
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So this is a lefty blog? I'm outta here.
Pretty much, yes.
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Pretty much, yes.
Apart from what Craig said above, actually I don't care, particularly in this discussion. Political leanings shouldn't have anything to do with receiving national honours, or participating in blogs for that matter. They shouldn't, but perhaps they do?
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Someone tell Fran that even the MSM are discussing who gets honoured. Yes, awards went to senior desk-jockeys rather than those who actually got injured fighting the coolstore fire.
So, did The Waikato Times bother finding out whether any of "those who actually got injured fighting the coolstore fire" were even nominated? Or does that fuck with the "evil bureaucrats get honoured, while the working man gets the shaft" narrative?
I'd also be cold blooded enough to point out that there are plenty of firefighters, police officers, medical professionals etc. who get injured in the course of their duties who don't get QSMs.
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