Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The Mega Conspiracy

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  • DexterX, in reply to nzlemming,

    That isn't the question/dynamic I am posing - what I say is that all that needs to happen is that the USA files papers in America against a NZ Resident and there arises an almost an automatic right of extradition.

    I don't think that the situation - the ability to seek extradition - which has an almost infinite reach - limited by only by what is against the laws of or is considered criminal in the US of A - is necessarily healthy or in the best interests of justice in NZ.

    I can't help feel that Kim Dot Com has been targeted as he and NZ represent a soft target for the USA/FBI. It is perhaps a mater of the industry wanting the FBI to kill a chicken to frighten monkeys.

    My view of the activity of MegaUpload is that it is not criminal or a criminal conspiracy in the pure sense of what I consider to be criminal behaviour - they have been open about what they do which is provide a file sharing platform.

    The infringement of copyright rests firstly with the people uploading and down loading the copyrighted files - that MegaUpload may have not been over responsive to DMCA notices is another thing - and we will only see how that plays out if and when the case in the USA proceeds.

    The quantum of the damages/loss suffered by the industry is perhaps massively overstated realistically if people hadn’t been able to get the alleged copyright content for next to nothing they likely would not be interested in getting it.

    I for the moment support Kim Dot Com and not the FBI or the NZ Govt on all of this.

    I also look forward to manufacturers of automobiles that can exceed the speed limit paying all speeding infringement notices issued in respect of their makes and models of vehicles until such time as all vehicles are fitted with governors that limit speed to the required limits.

    The answer to the problems the "MegaConspiracy" represents to the industry (who publish copyrighted material) lie elsewhere and they need to come up with a effective solution.

    Does as much effort go into the pursuit of people that publish objectionable material or doesn't this happen on the same scale as the victims of abuse don't lobby congress?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1223 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Seems Te Herald are, for once, not on the side of "Laura Norder"
    <q.The police's colourful version of events was helpfully presented to the news media in a detailed press release - in stark contrast to the neither-confirm-nor-deny response they take to media questions when, say, a civilian is shot by an officer.</q>
    Get yer popcorn ready, this is going to be a hoot.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to DexterX,

    That isn’t the question/dynamic I am posing – what I say is that all that needs to happen is that the USA files papers in America against a NZ Resident and there arises an almost an automatic right of extradition.

    Yes. That's how the process works, for us as well as them. The USG presented a case to a Grand Jury in Virginia (I hesitate to say evidence, as the threshold for an indictment is a lot lower than a conviction) on the basis that a large number of MU's servers were in the US and thus the alleged crimes fell under US jurisdiction, and the jury determined there was a case to answer. Once the indictment was granted, a judge would have signed an arrest warrant and the FBI would turn to the NZ Police for assistance in apprehension.

    I don’t think that the situation – the ability to seek extradition – which has an almost infinite reach – limited by only by what is against the laws of or is considered criminal in the US of A – is necessarily healthy or in the best interests of justice in NZ.

    It's not. I suggest you read some of Graeme Edgeler's contributions to the thread about the legal process and requirements.

    I can’t help feel that Kim Dot Com has been targeted as he and NZ represent a soft target for the USA/FBI. It is perhaps a mater of the industry wanting the FBI to kill a chicken to frighten monkeys.

    Perhaps. What's your point?

    My view of the activity of MegaUpload is that it is not criminal or a criminal conspiracy in the pure sense of what I consider to be criminal behaviour – they have been open about what they do which is provide a file sharing platform.

    The infringement of copyright rests firstly with the people uploading and down loading the copyrighted files – that MegaUpload may have not been over responsive to DMCA notices is another thing – and we will only see how that plays out if and when the case in the USA proceeds.

    Unfortunately for Kim Dotcom, your view doesn't match the law in either NZ or the USA. If you want that changed, I suggest you do what I've been doing for some time now and try to educate MPs into why the law is wrong and damaging to our collective future.

    The quantum of the damages/loss suffered by the industry is perhaps massively overstated realistically if people hadn’t been able to get the alleged copyright content for next to nothing they likely would not be interested in getting it.

    Again, possible, but ultimately irrelevant.

    I for the moment support Kim Dot Com and not the FBI or the NZ Govt on all of this.

    Good for you.

    I also look forward to manufacturers of automobiles that can exceed the speed limit paying all speeding infringement notices issued in respect of their makes and models of vehicles until such time as all vehicles are fitted with governors that limit speed to the required limits.

    False analogy, but you run with it.

    The answer to the problems the “MegaConspiracy” represents to the industry (who publish copyrighted material) lie elsewhere and they need to come up with a effective solution.

    You think?

    Does as much effort go into the pursuit of people that publish objectionable material or doesn’t this happen on the same scale as the victims of abuse don’t lobby congress?

    Actually, it does. Probably more. NZ authorities maintain good relationships with counterparts around the world on this matter. The problem is that there will always be countries that don't participate and don't enforce what law they do have (Russia, for example) and so the publishers congregate in those places out of reach.

    Generally raids don't involve 76 cops and 2 helicopters on one location (in NZ, anyway, but it was a big house), but I have knowledge of operations including armed police where targets are known to have access to firearms. And operations overseas regularly include armed police because their police are regularly armed.

    It's also a little insulting of you to suggest that victims of abuse don't lobby Congress. Just because you don't see it happen doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2893 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Seems Te Herald are, for once, not on the side of “Laura Norder”

    It's not often that I find a Herald editorial to be more cogent than the comments, but I live to be surprised.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2893 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX, in reply to nzlemming,

    Lemming I am just not as interested as you in being as justifiably "RIGHT" or right wing..

    I suggest you read some of Graeme Edgeler's contributions to the thread about the legal process and requirements..

    I have and I don’t think that the situation, legally, is necessarily healthy or in the best interests of justice in NZ. That is my opinion.

    Perhaps. What's your point?.

    There are other solutions - a range of optionsa - making copyright material readily available through network of service or a quota charged through ISPs.

    You think?

    Yes I do.

    Again, possible, but ultimately irrelevant.

    Where assets are being seized this quantam of the dmamges alleged is relevant and justifies the seizure.

    It's also a little insulting of you to suggest that victims of abuse don't lobby Congress. Just because you don't see it happen doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    How is this insulting? Taking your example of Russia - the subject of objectionable material in Russia aren't going to get to lobby congress.

    Unfortunately for Kim Dotcom, your view doesn't match the law in either NZ or the USA..

    I consider the situation the law leaves 'us' in isn’t a particularly good resolve for the problem it endeavours to address and as a free citizen in a democracy I can express that view. There is so much of "my viewpoint" that doesn't match the operation of govt or the law in NZ - I think that is good.

    After the Kim Dot Com problem has played out in the Court her and in America the problem is still going to exist for the industry and they won't have gone far along the path to provising a solution.

    The solution to the copyright and content problem may come with a wider move to "cable network" type of service both in NZ and overseas.

    That is all I have got to say.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1223 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to DexterX,

    Lemming I am just not as interested as you in being as justifiably “RIGHT” or right wing..

    Moi??? Don't think so. But pleased to hear that you're happy being wrong. You have so much experience at it, after all.

    That is all I have got to say.

    Then my work has been successful ;-)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2893 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Our local supermarket is selling DVDs I wouldn't even consider downloading for $24.95.
    It seems that the distributors of such wares are relying on those incapable of using current technology and haven't heard of video hire shops.
    How much longer can the dinosaurs survive? the situation is madness itself, I can't imagine another industry that appears that determined to kill itself.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2893 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX, in reply to nzlemming,

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1223 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    Not dwelling on the Kim Dot Com thing - but when the US Govt want NZ to change it laws to suit the US of A - so they can extradite NZ resdients at will or do other stuff - they don't send a team of lawyers and other lobbyists to advance the case through the normal channels,

    What I understand they do is send a congressman who is good at hypnotizing chickens with a script to follow, and a copy of the relevant legislation they want enacted and then, hey presto ala kazzam ka pow, it happens.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1223 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to nzlemming,

    nzlemming- that contains all kinds of on-going relevancies-
    going to take a while to absorb...

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Islander,

    Doesn't it thou? However, you can put 3 lawyers in a room with the same problem and get 7 different opinions ;-)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2893 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to nzlemming,

    Hey, lawyers are trained to dispute (I think that's a quote but I cant access it just now-
    writers are just trained to imagine vast - and generally disasterous&/or problematic- scenarios :)

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    I must say, I've heard a few times that non-premium Megaupload users' link would automatically expire. I've not found this to be the case. While many other cyberlockers would delete non-premium uploads a month after its last download, I - never a premium user - found that my Megaupload links would usually survive for years, even in circumstances where its likely that it was not accessed for a year at a time.

    Should also mention that it was well known amongst sharers that MU had, by some stretch, the most long-lived links generally. Occasionally one would come across a dead MU link, but less often than for any of the others.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • bob daktari,

    edit delete - link already posted

    meanwhile it looks like the data stored is to be deleted - isn't this akn to destroying evidence? (not to mention the legally stored data people will lose)

    auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 532 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to bob daktari,

    Well, one would think so, yes. I'm watching this very closely as it's going to be a significant factor in the final case. If MU require the data to mount a defence, as they say they do, then there might be a judicial requirement for the USG to keep paying the storage bills in order to preserve it, given that they have frozen MU's funds. Or a judge might unfreeze funds for the sole purpose of paying the bills. I've seen judges order crazier things than that.

    Also for the USG to contend with might be liability actions for loss of data brought against them by legitimate users of MU, who are substantial, and the possibility of such a class action suit derailing their case.

    Fire up the popcorn machine!

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2893 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to nzlemming,

    Also for the USG to contend with might be liability actions for loss of data brought against them by legitimate users of MU, who are substantial, and the possibility of such a class action suit derailing their case.

    Fire up the popcorn machine!

    Sounds like it's on now.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5382 posts Report Reply

  • alobar,

    “Also for the USG to contend with might be liability actions for loss of data brought against them by legitimate users of MU, who are substantial, and the possibility of such a class action suit derailing their case.”

    Google's terms and condition make it clear there’s no guarantee documents stored on their servers will be safe and secure. I suppose MU’s T&C’s were similar ? And even if they weren’t who’d store important data there without up to date backups in another location?

    auckland • Since Apr 2010 • 63 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to alobar,

    Google’s terms and condition make it clear there’s no guarantee documents stored on their servers will be safe and secure. I suppose MU’s T&C’s were similar ?

    The site being gone, it’s a little hard to check ;-) but I found this on Scribdcould be genuine. Same claim is made.

    And even if they weren’t who’d store important data there without up to date backups in another location?

    I wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve come across that situation.

    edit And simple things like contracts mean nothing to lawyers who want to take a case against the government and smell a dollar in it for themselves. How many lawyers does it take to change a light bulb? How many can you afford?

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2893 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Sounds like it’s on now.

    nom nom nom

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2893 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to nzlemming,

    nom nom nom

    Hey, Lemming, that's MY Popcorn, you copied it.
    ;-)

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Nyah nyah nyah! Prove it, gummint man! (I'll be over here, eating the evidence)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2893 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to nzlemming,

    I will seize your Popcorn server and root your kernel.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    You say the sweetest things, Stevie :-)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2893 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    We're looking at this story in our first Media7 for 2012, with Rick Sher(p)a, Simon Grigg and Australian film-maker Neil Peplow.

    If you'd like to come to the recording tomorrow evening, we'll need you to present yourself at the Victoria St entrance of TVNZ some time between 5.15pm and 5.40pm.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22537 posts Report Reply

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