Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The perilous birth of the Psychoactive Substances Act

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  • Russell Brown, in reply to debunk,

    Well that’s interesting. And what happened then ..ie what service/feedback/action does the National Poisons Centre offer in response to such enquiries ?

    Good question. I'm going to include that in some follow-up questions.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22293 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    Ministry of Health website on Herbal Highs

    "For cases where the documentation is acute intoxication, harmful use etc the diagnosis code to assign is F19 Mental and behavioural disorders due to multiple drug use and use of other psychoactive substances and the free text on the code description should include the wording 'herbal high - synthetic cannabinomimetics."

    They note that "many of these substances are actually naphthoylindole (or other) derivatives rather than cannabis derivatives."

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to debunk,

    They note that “many of these substances are actually naphthoylindole (or other) derivatives rather than cannabis derivatives.”

    Fair enough. They all have an affinity for the cannabis receptors in the brain, but “synthetic cannabinomimetics” is a more precise term than “synthetic cannabis”. Turns out all the JWH chemicals are in the naphthoylindole family – so they’re analgesics.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22293 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    And far more dangerous than THC - the principal active component of cannabis?

    Really nothing to do with cannabis the plant that grows so well in clean and green NZ.

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • Shulgin,

    Good Article RB.

    The larger concern here is the credibility of the public service to actually do things in reasoned way that the public should have confidence in…like review the outdated Misuse of Drugs Act and administer the new Psycho-Active Substances act.

    For example, I can show how the NDIB (Police Unit) did a study of hospital admissions caused “soley” by cannabis (Maxwell report). In rough terms the Police found that cannabis caused around 2000 admissions a year, costing $30 million and involving 60,000 bed nights. The NDIB is a joint operation of Health, Customs and Police. The Maxwell report was delivered up to Police Executive who used it to fund “operations”, that is more budget from the political masters, and a measure of the ”good they do” in preventing cannabis hospital admissions.

    Big problem is that the Police misled everyone because they manipulated public Health data. The Police created a harm that did not exist. That was bad enough, but the Health department who gave the police the data, have a Copyright Notice, that states the data is not to be manipulated and they received a copy but never enquired into how the police arrived at their findings. If the Police are a thin blue line, then our public servants are karitane yellow stain!!

    I have the actual ICD 10 data extract from Health and I also have the manipulated data spreadsheet cooked up by the NZ Police. All of that is bad enough…but it turns out what the Police sought to do with the data was not technically possible in the first place, and yet no one pointed that out at the start…meaning the Maxwell report was always doomed….and should never have been written let alone acted upon by the Police executive.

    In summary we have a Police force making up social harms that do not exist, misleading the Courts, politicians and the tax paying public. I managed to get the Police to reluctantly remove the Maxwell report from their web site and intranet, via a complaint to the three ministers involved…but they will not go public with a proper retraction, nor are there any employment consequences for those public servants cooking the books!

    There are only two possibilities, incompetence….or a Police conspiracy….both are ugly places to be.

    So no, if the Police can fool you all with their “study” Dunne’s quaint Act is doomed!!

    The Police are drinking at the police bar telling themselves what good job “they-done”!!

    NZ • Since May 2011 • 124 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Just popped down the road thinking what a perfect day for a spicy IPA or even a citrusy Pilsner.
    But Jesus on a stick, what do I find? Liquor Store closed.
    What in Gods name is going on here?
    Are they forcing me to use synthetic shit?

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    @Steve Just remember all those happy brain endorphins generated popping down the road. Make sure the "synthetic shit" packet doesn't have toxic JWH-018 in it .. while noting this the Poisons Centre, set up by the Clinical Pharmacology Department at the Otago medical school, writes that

    "Consumers should be aware that these products have not undergone any clinical trials or testing to ensure their safety" .

    Would stick with borrowed citrusy Pilsner, or like, myself ..must be friends around with spare beer in the wireless dryless north?

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Unfortunately i am in Auckland at this point in time. Up North I have 2 Kegs sitting in the cool pining for my return.
    I just checked my power system on the web and I also have an abundance of electrons.
    Meanwhile, in Auckland, a man wanders around resetting clocks after a 15 hour power outage dreaming of distant ales.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Russell Brown,

    naphthoylindole bludgers…

    …they’re analgesics.

    that may well explain the stomach problems and vomiting reported with over-use –

    …apparently Aspirin (at least), and similar analgesics, are connected to stripping the intestine and stomach lining of mucus, they inhibit the enzymes responsible for prostaglandin synthesis, stopping the pain signal even starting, but prostaglandins are responsible for making the mucus for the intestines and stomach lining… which then lets the corrosive gastric juices and enzymes attack the tiny folds and forests of microvilli of the stomach lining creating ulcers…
    …but no pain signal gets through – well you can see how that will end.*

    I think there can also be related liver and kidney damage by similar processes…


    This abstract on K2 was interesting (insomuch as I could understand it) :

    In this work, we have identified, for the first time, specific human UGTs capable of processing hydroxylated derivatives of JWH-018 and JWH-073. It is evident from this work that several human tissues, including liver, intestine, brain, and lung, could be involved in the biotransformation of these compounds. Moreover, this information will lead to a better understanding of potential adverse drug reactions related to enzyme polymorphisms and drug-drug interactions. It is anticipated that these data may prompt other investigators to consider the importance of human UGTs in the metabolism and clearance of these compounds, especially the role of not only hepatic and intestinal biotransformation but also conjugation in the brain and lungs. The identification of relatively high activity of two human brain UGT isoforms, 1A3 and 2B7, is also of special interest because they may be able to control the concentrations of those compounds available for binding to the cannabinoid receptors located in this tissue.

    [Edit]: added links that may be of interest:

    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Cannabinoids

    and

    http://www.drugs.com/aspirin.html
    ——
    *(That’s how my Dad died – the hospital pumped him full of aspirin and didn’t monitor his pre-existing stomach ulcers, bastards, long story…)

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7565 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Unfortunately i am in Auckland

    I’ve heard of it...
    their stuttery old slogan says it all
    "Auckland – the city of suss ales"

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7565 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    WIKIPEDIA on JWH-018 is informative. (Naphthalen-1-yl-pentylindol-3 yDmethanone)..lots of scope for variants as products withdrawn and replaced. What were these politicians thinking! Nutts.

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to debunk,

    What were these politicians thinking!

    They wuz thinking Votes from an ill informed populace.
    I think maybe Peter Dunne is an under cover Gang member protecting his constituents for it is only them that will suffer under legal cannabis.
    Where is Phil Stoner Twyford when you need him?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    Dunno about that son Dunne. Suspect this may be a "game-changer" (Hon. Dunne) but maybe not in the way intended....

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to debunk,

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7565 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    “Auckland – the city of suss ales”

    And Mt Roskill, fer Gods sake.....

    In the past, Mount Roskill was referred to as the Bible Belt of Auckland, as it contains the highest number of churches per capita in New Zealand.[citation needed]

    Apparently we all have a cross to bear and famous people to boot....

    Mount Roskill has been home to many successful New Zealanders who attended the local schools. Among them are:[citation needed]
    Rugby coach John Hart,
    Billionaire Graeme Hart,
    Rugby union international Doug Howlett,
    Actor Russell Crowe,
    Evangelist Bill Subritzky,
    Reserve Bank Governor Alan Bollard,
    Tennis player Brett Steven,
    Labour MP Phil Goff,
    Rugby league and Rugby union international Matthew Ridge,
    Rugby league international Steve Matai,
    The Hay family (of Keith Hay Homes),
    New Zealand Kiwis representative Evarn Tuimavave,
    New York Times Best Selling author Nalini Singh,

    Including that rascal Allan Bollard,
    made famous by the inimitable David Haywood.
    [citation needed]... apparently...
    We also have the 120 story Old Peoples Home, Dunne Roamin', which, under the new District Plan, is now regarded as an illegal high subject to the outcome of a cup of tea with the overseas owners and is said to be worth 6 billion blocks of cheese.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    More dangerous because it (and many of its analogues) affects the whole CB1 receptor ..not partial agonist like cannabis - therefore stronger and less predictable effects..is not THC remember!

    "THC has been shown to inhibit GABA receptor neurotransmission in the brain via several pathways .. JWH-018 may cause intense anxiety, agitation, and, in rare cases (generally with non-regular JWH users), has been assumed to have been the cause of seizures and convulsions by inhibiting GABA neurotransmission more effectively than THC. Cannabinoid receptor full agonists may present serious dangers to the user when used in excess."

    Maybe the unfortunate cooky consumer got the slice with all the strong bits in it ..can't take much from that description. Was a case here with a marijuana birthday cake taken to workplace in Palmerston North I think, where fellow workers weren't told and one had a bad reaction. Like Nutts sensitivity ...Nutts don't agree with everyone -

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    Quote from Wikipedia page. A lot more on Dept Health page re "Legal Highs" but mislaid my printout. NZ Poisons Centre Info does say, however (14.01.09):

    "Products sold as 'herbal' cannabis substitutes such as "Spice," "Dream" or "Yucatan Fire" have been found to contain the chemical compound JWH-018, an ingredient not listed on the label...has been recently banned in Austria and Germany"

    "In New Zealand products are legally required to list all ingredients on the label"..

    I presume the labelling requirement still applies.

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to debunk,

    I presume the labelling requirement still applies.

    Probably full descriptive labelling is only for 'Food' and washing, ironing and country of origin...

    Food standards labelling guide

    there are regulations for medicines / drugs and therapeutic products
    - requiring clinical tests before release
    ( google NZ drug labelling laws - mostly PDFs rather than pages)
    but are synthetics sold as either?

    the EPA says...

    Labelling requirements for hazardous substances can be met by complying with any of the following:
    -the Hazardous Substances Regulations;
    -Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals (GHS) requirements; and
    -Approved Codes of Practice.

    and from the linked PDF guide at that site:

    As the GHS precautionary statements have not yet been fully harmonised they may be subject to further development. Any such changes will be reflected in future updates of this document

    ...and if 'synthetic psychoactives' are not called a 'Hazardous Substance' yet, well, the merry-go-round continues blithely on.... playing its 'unharmonised' tune - one day they may all be 'on song', meanwhile some 'choirs' may hit bum notes...

    and the EPA probably needs to get involved, as from my reading, quite alot of the substances involved also pass through the user and into the environment (water mostly) - much like the rising levels of viagra and other prescribed pharmaceuticals turning our waterways and oceans into a cocktail of chemicals - who knows what reactions may take place, or new life evolve from the 'high panaceas'...

    WHO

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7565 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    No this was on a NZ Poisons Centre Info page devoted to "New Party Drugs" (News Archive) with that date (2009) so accurate labelling of product has been a requirement for at least the past 5 years it seems. MoH withdrew the last category because JWH-018was found in it by analysis but not listed on packet. Never seen a packet myself so I don't know where ingredients are shown.

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    Re passing into water .. apparently the Thames yields up an interesting profile of drug use in London and thereabouts. Probably a big cleanout with recent flooding. Happy wildlife.

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    Re laws ..thought RMA and ACC Acts confusing enough but son Dunne will have fun with this one.

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

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