Hard News: The standing-still sweep
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merc,
The war is over but the terrorists stayed and no laws seem to stop the killing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/world/middleeast/10iraq.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Local terrorists, one person's terrorist is another's security guard. -
It's the thin end of the wedge and to say "one of the news stories" is a bit disingenuous with regard to your attitude to the MSM. Yes it would seem to be quite a bit different but we all know things are rarely what they seem.
It was the Stuff story, saying police "expected", based on their surveillance, to find grenades. An updated version of the story now says "in Auckland 10 people are facing charges of illegal possession of Molotov cocktails, rifles and ammunition."
However, I would be the last one to advocate armed stuggle against the colonial powers that be. That would serve no purpose what so ever. It would not surprise me to find a certain Mr Wishart behind part of all this. Do you remember his piece on the NZAIF (armed intervention force) ?
Much as I dislike Wishart and what he does, I see no cause to pluck his name out of thin air in this case.
I suspect that the majority of those arrested and/or raided are guilty of nothing more than having known persons of interest. But there seems enough out there already to suggest that a few people have been engaged in things in which I would damn well expect the police to intervene, whatever the politics of those involved.
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There's got to be a story in why TV3 were either invited, or 'accidentally told' to be there for that dawn raid.
TV3's offices aren't too far from the scene. Apparently a reporter saw a group of cops formation marching down a street and followed.
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I wouldn't have expected actual firearms and stuff, but then again, maybe they decided to get serious with some non-vegans...
i know the place as well. you'd likely find a lot of smokers in there, but i'd very surprised if they were activity associated with any terrorists.
unless you call protesting against people who sell weapons terrorism. afaik these are the same guys who protest against national front.
this whole thing has a keystone cop stink about it, imho.
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There's got to be a story in why TV3 were either invited, or 'accidentally told' to be there for that dawn raid. And were allowed to film about four feet from the door. The 'raid' can't have been that dangerous if civilians were standing directly in the line of any potential fire.
I think there's no doubt that there's been a lot of leaking on this one, already. But that's what journalists have sources for -- that crucial nod on the big jobs.
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just watched more of that video.
must have scared the piss out of the hippies living in that place. nice to hear bellbirds in the background though.
that karori sanctuary is really coming along.
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Interesting priorities indeed. Perhaps the prohibition of cannabis has helped fund these alleged activities in the Ureweras.
Sshhh, Paula!
Unfortunately, I suspect many "Jacqui Dean" types would take the wrong message from any such links, and suggest they would be good reason to make Cannabis a Class A drug.
On the other hand, perhaps the "terrorist organizing" was all just stoned bravado? :-)
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Stuff is reporting that one of the residents at the Wellington house is Sam Buchanan. Sam is a long-time community activist/anarchist, active in environmental and peace issues. He certainly will be well known to the police.
In the early nineties the police raided the Auckland People's Centre after a protest and he was batoned in the eye, suffering permanent bone damage and loss of eyesight. I can't remember the exact details, but I think the police paid out for medical bills or something.
I haven't spoken to Sam for most of ten years, but I'd be surprised if he was involved in anything involving firearms. Damage to property, I could understand. Thinking about hurting people? I'd be very surprised.
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The quote attributed to Edmund Burke springs to mind "first they came for the communists"
*cough* *splutter*
There weren't any communists when Edmund Burke was around. Burke died in 1797, Marx wrote Das Kapital in 1867.
Also Burke was as crusty a conservative as you could get and I think would have been greatly in favour of rounding up troublemakers.
The quote you are thinking of is probably from Pastor Martin Niemoeller. ObWikiRef
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I suspect that the majority of those arrested and/or raided are guilty of nothing more than having known persons of interest. But there seems enough out there already to suggest that a few people have been engaged in things in which I would damn well expect the police to intervene, whatever the politics of those involved.
Better safe than sorry eh? Cry Freedom and uleash the dogs of war.
The reference to Wishart was not out of thin air, it was from memory.
This whole scenario smacks of an "exercise" in anti terrosrist action dressed up as an operation. Whilst I may sit here feeling secure in the knowledge that the "war on terror" is just as usless as the "war on drugs" and the threat is all smoke and mirrors I have to acknowledge that there are loonies out there on both sides of the fence and some of them wear blue uniforms. As many here would accept the real threat is not the badly organised groups of nutters but the well organised body of power that is trying to take what little freedoms we have away from all of us. We must not allow ourselves to be bamboozled into thinking that we are at war, we're not but if it camre to the crunch I know which side I would be on, do you?
Hasta la victoria siempre -
A couple of threads twisting around of Govt/Transport/Terrorism.
There is Research going into Planning & Islamist Terrorism at the moment.
My gut on this is to make people friendly spaces and remove cars from shared spaces. No parking on the side of the road etc and parrallel infrastructure for bikes and people to wander.
But I would just subvert the terrorism paranoia for my own ends - much like the cops are doing now.
You just know someone got off a P charge don't you.
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The TV3 site is chucking up server-busy error messages. It'd seem to be getting hammered.
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The reference to Wishart was not out of thin air, it was from memory.
And given he's referencing himself today you can't really be blamed...
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TV3 has an office in Wellington?
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Why not crack down on those street terrorists - the pushy, crusty hippies who try to get you to sign up to Greenpeace?
Annoying, in-your-face, rude and condescending.
"Bugger off, dolphin head!"
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Laser rangefinding binoculars & pocket knives are both types of military weapons.
Of course there was that solider in parmy flicking stuff off to gangs a few months back.
So this great bit of police action might be the result of crap security & accountability by the army. Not terrorism per se.
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TV3 has an office in Wellington?
Err, yip, infact it is about 3 blocks down from the house in question,
Following the changes to the Willis/Abel smith intersection, I suspect it they may have even walked there, it would have been quicker than driving :)
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(Going way way back on this thread to the original discussion about Auckland's elections...)
Angus, I'm not sure Hinchcliff was ever a credible choice. His policy ideas certainly didn't dovetail with those of City Vision and he acted, as a CV elected councillor, in ways incommensurate with continuing a healthy association with that organisation. If he wanted CV endorsement he didn't really make any effort to get it.
He also promised certain people within CV that he would pull out if he polled less than 5%. In the Herald poll he got 4.5%, but did he pull out? No. This was well before CV had even breathed a whisper of endorsing anyone, including Hubbard.
Ultimately I don't think Hinchcliff was ever a viable option for the centre-left to get behind for the mayoralty. I would be really interested in some discussion from PA readers about who might be a goer for 2010, but I suspect we are all a bit more fixated on the two big Ts (Transport and Terrorism) ;-)
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The quote you are thinking of is probably from Pastor Martin Niemoeller.
Thank you Stephen, I stand corrected. I just remembered the poem was erroneously attributed to someone, Bertold Brecht I think and I always get the two mixed up. They both had names, names always confuse me ;-)
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As many here would accept the real threat is not the badly organised groups of nutters but the well organised body of power that is trying to take what little freedoms we have away from all of us. We must not allow ourselves to be bamboozled into thinking that we are at war, we're not but if it camre to the crunch I know which side I would be on, do you?
Assuming there is something to the reporting -- ie: that a group of crazy people have been training with military weapons with the intention of staging multiple violent attacks, molotovs have been found, etc -- then the police are doing what I would expect them to do.
I don't care if they're right-wing or left-wing crazy people, or "badly organised" or not. And I'm not clear on what freedoms I'm being deprived of in the police intervening to stop crazy people doing crazy things with weapons.
If it all turns out to be a police beat-up, then fine. But let's wait and see before declaring it to be the crushing jackboot of the state.
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Posters here whose first instinct is to trash the police might just want to give some thought about what the consequences for NZ would be if a militia was allowed to set off an armed sectarian conflict.
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I don't care if they're right-wing or left-wing crazy people, or "badly organised" or not. And I'm not clear on what freedoms I'm being deprived of in the police intervening to stop crazy people doing crazy things with weapons.
Intervening, I should note, by getting search warrants, arresting people, bringing them to court the same day, and planning to prosecute them in open court under ordinary laws.
We're a long, long way from the "war on terror" here, folks.
What this also means is that if the police are over-egging their case, and apart from a few unlicensed frearms (which are a Bad Thing) all they have is dumbarses mouthing off like they do on Kiwiblog every day, they're going to lose very badly in court.
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It wasn’t a stunt to promote the 30th anniversary of “Sleeping Dogs”, was it?
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As an etymological aside I notice some people using the word 'hippie' as a derogatory term. Could someone please explain why this is so? I don't understand.
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Posters here whose first instinct is to trash the police might just want to give some thought about what the consequences for NZ would be if a militia was allowed to set off an armed sectarian conflict.
Heh, I got here late and thought briefly "Jeebus what has Banks done now!"
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