Hard News: The standing-still sweep
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I'd like to point out at this stage that name suppression has been applied, and another kiwi blog is still ignoring it.
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Apologize to the lion and the cobra and tell them that real Aucklanders don't fart in lifts. Then enjoy the show.
Good one Ben.
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Ah, Tame Iti - he's a living art installation.
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The Trade Me record for another one of those arrested, hunt4life, lists heaps of transactions for things like ammunition, an "SAS SDU Level 4 Body Armor Tactical Assault Vest" etc, all but four of them purchases, settled promptly. Somebody who knows what this stuff is might want to take a look.
The guy certainly has a good rep as a trader.
The only one arrested in Auckland who doesn't have name suppression is Jamie Lockett, Mark Lyon's former minder. It just gets weirder!
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that particular type of conflict will never happen in nzl.
Hum... I'll remember that that when the election campaign get going - because it's almost inevitable that someone is going to predict race war if the evil John Key ever gets the keycard to the 9th Floor.
What I find rather nauseating about folks (both on the loony left and rabid right) who are quite happy to talk up race riots and civil war is that there's a few people in this country who have close - and heart-breaking - knowledge of the real thing.
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Apologize to the lion and the cobra and tell them that real Aucklanders don't fart in lifts. Then enjoy the show.
Good one Ben.
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Apologize to the lion and the cobra and tell them that real Aucklanders don't fart in lifts. Then enjoy the show.
Good one Ben.
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I don't know what happened there?? trippple post.......... sorry
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And a request for MSM folks: Perhaps you could delcare a moratorium on throwing around terms like 'terror raids' and 'terrorist threats' at least until charges alleging any such thing are laid. I've given up hoping that the distinction between a charge and conviction means anything any more.
It seems to me that there are way too many media outlets setting themselves up for please explain sessions with either the BSA or Press Council, if not a slew of defamation suits. Don't know about any other PA reader, but terrorist strikes me as one of the more seriously nasty labels you can slap on a person.
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It sort of, kind of, doesn't make any sense. Wellington and Auckland Lefties+Maori Militia.
Sounds too much like a Paul Holmes wet dream to be true.
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Oh and say what you like about his potential evil deeds, he was a Prince on trade me.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Feedback.aspx?member=2031910
In our cyber-age there can be no higher accolade.
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And a request for MSM folks: Perhaps you could delcare a moratorium on throwing around terms like 'terror raids' and 'terrorist threats' at least until charges alleging any such thing are laid. I've given up hoping that the distinction between a charge and conviction means anything any more.
So far as I can tell, no has used the phrase "terrorist threat" in a report today, so no need for a moratorium on that.
Or "terror raid" either -- the reports all refer to "anti-terror raids", which isn't unreasonable, given the legislation invoked.
I think TV3's work today has been bloody good, actually.
One News, relying on "sources" making unprovable claims, not so much. OTOH, if I had a source saying that a "threat" against the Prime Minister sparked the action, I think I'd struggle to keep it out of my 6pm news bulletin.
It's shaping up as amazing story that someone's going to come out of poorly.
Ron Mark's still a fuckwit though.
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From another forum:
one of the cyber-hori items was:
Army camo / camoflauge pants XXXXL
Fattest terrorist ever.
Lol.
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Did someone say thepolice were formation marching in the pre-dawn light past TV3's offices??? In their black armed offenders uniform????
Were they singing as well?????
The flag high! The ranks tightly closed!
NZP marches with a firm, courageous pace.
Comrades, shot dead by Red Front and Reaction
March in spirit within our ranks....?????? -
And since when do "real terrorists" need a popular support base? You mean like Bader Meinhoff, say?
Baader Meinhoff arose out of widespread civil disobedience, and state crackdowns on them. A student was killed and a number of the protesters decided to go the violent route.
Weatherman, or Weather Underground as it came to be known, arose out of massive demonstrations in the late 60s, which they wildly misjudged the mood of the demonstrators and thought that tens of thousands of them would follow them into a civil war.
Che's right. There's no support for any uprising or sectarian conflict. There's nothing going on at present for those people to arise out of. There might be sufficient disgruntlement amongst some Maori for a bunch to go over the edge, but once you list environmental and peace activists in the mix, I'm really dubious.
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Local body elections, cyclists and gun raids in the Ureweras... I think this is now officially the most interesting thread on PAS ever.
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Were they singing as well?????
We love our Molenberg ...
Oh the policemans life for me ... (with apologies to Cosi Fan Tutte) -
Che's right. There's no support for any uprising or sectarian conflict. There's nothing going on at present for those people to arise out of. There might be sufficient disgruntlement amongst some Maori for a bunch to go over the edge, but once you list environmental and peace activists in the mix, I'm really dubious.
I think sectarian conflict's a red herring, but there are certainly precedents for much smaller groups of activists killing and hurting others.
Animal Rights groups with fire bombs for example, and the Earth Liberation Front with even more firebombs. The Unabomber, who killed 23 people, was an anarcho-primtivist who had writings published by Green Anarchy magazine.
Then you've got Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, a survivalist nutter and a Christian terrorist respectively. So it can happen.
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"The only one arrested in Auckland who doesn't have name suppression is Jamie Lockett, Mark Lyon's former minder. It just gets weirder!"
The cops didn't have a search warrent for the 2 CHCH addresses. What the?
Save Happy Valley dudes. Tree hugging hippies (I really love hippies just weary of new ages & where it can all end up) who want to save the snails. Save the SnailsSome guy with drug connections, Maori rights campaigners, anti motorway hippies, & anti mining activists.
These are totally seperate grps.Therefore its not about them, it's about us. This is State Terrorism creating a climate of fear. To remove support from the Maori Party & the Greens, & gain support from NZ Firster as strong against grugs. It is purely to get a 4th Term for the Labour Govt.
This is a criminally cynical machavallian horror.
Have a nosey through the Herald photos and see the terror in the childs eyes hiding from the cops in black with guns. And of all the raids it was only the one on Tuhoe that they acted like a police state. Road blocks, OK an armed raid is on but photos of everyone in front of their cars number plates - This is nasty.
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The Herald is touting its lead for tomorrow:
Two hunters alerted police to the presence of armed men in camouflage in the Ureweras after stumbling into their camp, the Herald can reveal.
Police today arrested 17 people in nationwide raids linked to alleged weapons training camps in the Bay of Plenty.
The story of what the hunters saw - to be reported exclusively in Tuesday's New Zealand Herald - forms part of the background to an extensive investigation by 300 police including the specialist police anti-terrorist unit.
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Saw Annette Sykes on the late news tonight, and she did have a point: given the distribution of those charged, why was Ruatoki the only place which had its transport links cut and where everyone was stopped, searched,and photographed? Was it because they were brown?
I'm also wondering what's going to happen to those photos. People who aren't actually suspected of any crime, but were just goign about their daily business. Will that evidence be destroyed, or kept around for later? (Was the roadblock a fishing expedition so they could identify more people in their surveilance tapes?)
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Therefore its not about them, it's about us. This is State Terrorism creating a climate of fear. To remove support from the Maori Party & the Greens, & gain support from NZ Firster as strong against grugs. It is purely to get a 4th Term for the Labour Govt.
This is a criminally cynical machavallian horror.
This isn't Kiwiblog. Best wait a bit before declaring an evil Liabour conspiracy, huh?
Given what's already in the public domain (and pending tomorrow's reporting) it seems more likely that a few people who happened to have contact with much wider networks may have been having crazy thoughts.
I do agree with I/S that there are questions to be asked about the Tuhoe operation, and what happens to the evidence collected today.
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Of all the things coppers will get up to in their fruitless attempt to restore public confidence in themselves, even this old cynic never thought they'd sink so low as to round up the tattered remnants of NZ's political non-mainstreamers under some prevention of terrorism bullshit.
I shouldn't be surprised at this unholy alliance between the do anything for a vote government and the do anything for another wide-ranging law, that allows lots of power and no accountability police force, but I am.
Once again the Labour Party tries to shore itself up by attacking the fringe to their left rather than competing with Key and the greedheads.
The thing that doesn't surprise me is the ease with which so many have jumped to accept this fantasy.
Ask yourself this. If the police really thought when they were catching up with crazed Maori Leftist Greenie Animal lovers, that these people were really dangerous terra-ists why did they take a TV3 crew with them.
Apart from the fact they may have been injured by stray bullets or suicide bombers, if the danger was that great and these people were so pervasive in our society how did they know TV3 news hadn't been infiltrated by the alleged terra-ists?
This was a PR exercise to try and shore up a couple of creaking institutions actually three institutions including the media.
Our media who have said nothing about the way that some of the few people who do stand up and present alternative notions of what NZ could be, have been rolled up like an old rug.
But of course! What else would they do? I mean the government and the police are better 'news sources' than old radicals.
Why let ethics stand in the way of selling garbage headlines? That would be as silly as letting the facts get in the way of a good story.
Of course those who have a mutually beneficial relationship with the lazy, uninformed drunks who make up NZ's media will deny this and pedantically argue around the fringes, but time will show this farce up for what it is.
We'll discover than many many dollars have been spent on undercover agents and phone taps, listening devices and videos of a disparate bunch of free-thinkers mouthing off about what they should do, but never will.The notion of NZ having any sort of uprising however 'fringe' when finally for the first time in 50 years there is a couple of dollars slushing around, flies in the face of history.
I suppose it makes a change for the security alliance from blowing hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars on the surveillance of Russian petty crims but this one will leave a lot more egg on a lot more faces.
When it turns out this was a furphy peeps are gonna be very angry and disappointed. It was NZ's chance to prove it's a real place with real terra-ists I mean you can't dine out on the Rainbow Warrior for ever can you.
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Ask yourself this. If the police really thought when they were catching up with crazed Maori Leftist Greenie Animal lovers, that these people were really dangerous terra-ists why did they take a TV3 crew with them.
Apart from the fact they may have been injured by stray bullets or suicide bombers, if the danger was that great and these people were so pervasive in our society how did they know TV3 news hadn't been infiltrated by the alleged terra-ists?
Well gee, if the cops had been conniving to embed a 3 News operative, I'm really not sure they'd have picked a freelance cameraman for Sunrise. And wouldn't they have brought along, like, a reporter?
The truth is this: the camerman was going to work at TV3, nearby the Abel Smith Street house, saw the cops en route, grabbed his camera, and got a few pictures. What TV3 had in its clip was basically the extent of it.
So on one hand we have furious news speculation and on the other, wild conspiracy theorising. Clearly, it's going to be a long week.
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Russell I want to be wrong I really do.
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