Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Veitch

619 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 11 12 13 14 15 25 Newer→ Last

  • ScottY,

    I can't help but think they had Chatwin on the line to comment on their silly story about whether Westies are happy, and thought they'd get a Veitch quote too. It's that lame.

    Russell, they were two diferent papers. Here's the Westie story.

    I know it's off-thread, but allow me to rant about the Westie article. It's a piece of lazy journalism. Things like this that piss me off:

    Robyn Malcolm can judge the mood in Waitakere better than most: the hard-working, hard-partying character she plays on TV's Outrageous Fortune is the archetypal Westie, yet the actor herself lives in Devonport on Auckland's North Shore. Malcolm says every place has its happy and its unhappy bits: "It depends on who moves in."

    So she doesn't live in West Auckland, but because she plays a character in a TV show who does, she knows the mood better than most? They could have just interviewed some more locals.

    Rant over. As you were.

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • philipmatthews,

    Nothing much to add to today's fascinating discussions, but this -- I was a little worried that some of my speculation last night was out of order, but the reality of how these stories have played out this morning seems so much worse and far stranger than anything we could have speculated about. Most of that's been gone over. But I was very interested in this line in the Herald on Sunday's "time to move on" editorial:

    "He must remove himself from the public spotlight and forget any notion of further legal action."

    I know Russell said much the same thing back on Friday, back when this Veitch narrative seemed that much more coherent than it does now, but given the NZ Herald is one of two media outlets Veitch explicitly named on Thursday, I wondered if this is a first: a publication urging a celebrity not to sue a sister publication.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2007 • 656 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    a publication urging a celebrity not to sue

    Accompanied by many stories about the situation that the suing would be about. Without the slightest awareness of irony.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Are you kidding? The legal documentation about the original payment for work/compensation/hush money was leaked by 'Team Dunne-Powell' to almost every media outlet in the country, including the womens magazines.

    The summary of evidence to the police revealing that Veitch kicked her in the back while she was lying on the floor sure as hell wasn't given to Donna Chisholm at the SST by Glenda Hughes.

    I don't think you're correct, Danyl. This was the reporting at the time:

    However, Auckland police Detective Inspector Scott Beard said the information in the newspapers appeared to have come from a police summary, but such information had never been supplied by police.

    "The only people who have access to the police caption of summary are myself, the officer in charge of the case, the Crown and Mr Veitch and his team," he told Radio New Zealand.

    The Sunday News and the Herald on Sunday both led their stories on it with the news that Veitch had been charged with assault for throwing a glass of water oer Dunne-Powell (Jonathan Marshall called it "a bizarre new twist" to the story). Even Chisholm mentioned it in her second paragraph. The effect, and I don't think it was accidental, was to trivialise the original allegations.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    I helplessly feel the media manipulation endorsed by the Veitch team is just a reaction to and another symptom of the trial by popular opinion ethos furthered right here.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Kerry Weston,

    Kerry, Lhaws was Giovanni's idea I think.

    By the transitive property of compliments, I'm going to usurp "being a man of great wit" for the day. Hooray!

    My pleasure, gio. I think both you and sacha are worthy of that embellishment!

    Manawatu • Since Jan 2008 • 494 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Having simply refused to read or view any recent MSM piece on Mr Veitch beyond basic details of the sentence (it just feels too much like enablement of an awful, awful scene) this has been an interesting read - it allows for a certain academic detachment of the media spin aspect of the case.

    And thankgod at least one news outlet has, for a single occasion at least, decided on a better course of action.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Kerry Weston,

    However, I have to say that suicide is a matter I am very passionate about and I really do need to find ways of understanding and helping people who might be at risk. The questions then are 'what are the warning signs?' and 'what to do next?' Some sincere attempts to help only make matters worse if they are uniformed by others' experience of similar cases. I think that that transcends moral fastidiousness.

    Yeah, dealing with teenagers at risk has been a prime soap box of mine for quite some time. My 20 yr old nephew topped himself some years ago - no note, no warning signs that anyone put together. It was a huge shock to the family as he was away at uni in Dunedin, so we saw no obvious signs and neither did his friends down there. However, he did leave some rather enigmatic clues - like a philosophy book marked at a certain page in his room and a marked calendar. He'd also come to a fancy dress party at my house dressed as the Grim Reaper a few months before and talked a lot about wanting a simple life - love, children, living simply at Portobello and maybe designing computer software (he was a maths whizz). He had done medicine and as part of their training did experiments in losing consciousness with anaesthesia - he made his own mask so he wouldn't choke on the exhaust fumes and made a very ritualised exit, at dawn, somewhere very beautiful. I have no doubts he wanted to end it, rather than a cry for help. i think he couldn't handle the stress of expectations that he 'be someone' because he was so gifted. Murray was a lovely, sensitive, witty young man.....much loved.

    The repercussions are still felt today in my family - it's never over. I've lost several friends to it over the years. It makes me very cross indeed when people play with suicide as a manipulative thing. The few occasions when someone I know has done so, they've got a huge telling-off from me and told in glorious detail why it is such an appalling thing to do. I don't abandon them, though.

    Manawatu • Since Jan 2008 • 494 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    Kerry, I am so sorry about your nephew, and I quite agree - suicide attempts as a manipulative tool leaves a horrible taste. I have tried not to be cynical about how this man's actions. I have no doubt he needs some sort of help. It just seems so staged, all of it. Glenda Hughes must be regretting her decision to take him on, and I suspect she wouldn't be the only one.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    Russell, how's that edit tool coming along????

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I'm sure he's down in the garden shed carving one from driftwood as we speak..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite,

    Kerry, I am very sorry. My sympathies - as well as I can express them...

    Even in the 'cry for help' incidents, it's not impossible to feel sympathy (of course that's the point, but...). A person I have known for some years had made three attempts so far and caused a lot of pain, but nonetheless, I can see what sort of place that they're in, with a terrible personal history. I'm torn between outrage at the suffering that they propagate and my regard and sympathy for them, because they have also, in other people's crises, been devotedly supportive and strong. I can't make a 'choice' between these two sides or feelings - life is just not that simple. One has to steer a course for them, somehow...

    Another person, an immediate family member, tried at least two times also and now has a wonderful life.

    One let go, one refuses, but then the first has been treated for their whole life with such injustice, they simply haven't learned how to deal with any other kind of situation. I think one day they will succeed.

    I've also had to deal with a number of students who have been in the 'overwhelmed' category. One had dyslexia and described themself as having two aspects: one was confident, fluent, talented, and the other, who struggled to put together a coherent phrase on paper was 'stupid' and made the first aspect seem like a sham. They'd have been told by their friends 'No, you're OK, you've no reason to worry, your fears aren't real' because they were so outwardly talented, but they'd take the reassurance sceptically because it implied an incomprehension of anxieties that were overwhelming, and which therefore couldn't be communicated or taken seriously by others.

    (We seem to get a lot of people with dyslexia at art, design and architecture schools, because they have visual and social skills, but apart from studio papers, I teach history, where they have to write essays. History being a core course in most such institutions, they have to pass or they don't get their degree or their life's ambition. That's where they come to grief.)

    I could have sent this student to a counsellor and washed my hands of the matter and they did see a counsellor, but people like that need understanding teachers too, otherwise the internal division continues. Often too they are very reluctant to see a counsellor in any case as it means opening themselves up too much to too many strangers and appeal directly to the person who gives them the tangible grades.

    In that person's case, fully moderated, they went from D to B+. They live.

    Sometimes, perhaps, someone who seems just a bit too happy when at other times they had spoken of their sense of fundamental self-doubt a while back before clamming up on the subject is one to watch more closely than the one who has a complete Joy Division collection.

    I think I can see where your nephew was coming from, maybe. Perhaps he felt that he had let himself down as well.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite,

    It just seems so staged, all of it.

    Jackie, I note that you say 'seems', not 'is', so please take what I say with my knowledge of your use in mind. The point I was trying to make in my characteristically overelaborate way above is that a lot of manipulative behaviour is indeed systematic in a way, but unconscious and compulsive. A lot of rationalisation is in fact postrationalisation.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    a lot of manipulative behaviour is indeed systematic in a way, but unconscious and compulsive.

    oh, absolutely, kracklite - and I would hope this may be the case here. I just find the ringing of all the available media outlets first somewhat not particularly unconcious.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite,

    Hmmm, yes, but he's been marinated in media for years, and that must have a warping effect. Remind me never to become famous.

    I can't believe that I'm being Advocatus Diaboli here...

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I just find the ringing of all the available media outlets first somewhat notparticularly unconcious.

    Much as I feel icky discussing this: to put those calls back in context, he phoned them during the episode (not "first") to implore them to publish historical correspondence showing how remorseful he had been towards Dunne-Powell. If his depression truly was precipitated by the feeling that the public hadn't bought his apology, those contacts seem consistent with how Veitch would behave in a genuine moment of distress.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Kerry Weston,

    Thanks, Jackie and Kracklite. I'm open about it all because I do believe it needs to be aired, it's still stigmatised because people are afraid to deal with it openly.

    For the family and friends left behind it exposes all the weaknesses, amplifies them. People tear themselves apart, and others apart, in their pain. I'll admit something awful -- I've never been able to discuss it with my brother (his father), in the years since. I have the feeling his pain is stored so deep that to dig for it would be cruel.

    And like others here, I get the Black Dog nipping at my heels, as does one of my sons. It was dealing with his major depression that, on the one hand, ignited my anger about the pitiful level of help available for teens in distress and, on the other, forced me to have faith in my own methods of dealing with it. One of which was to make sure he had no opportunity to be alone and do anything fatal. It was like being on Home D. for a year.

    I also kept up contact with nature - bush walks, beach, river. Kept all stress at bay. Let him sleep. Didn't harass him to talk, but let him know I was there, would always go in to bat for him. And just retold stories, allegories. And got him to cook! Stories and cooking ...sounds like I'm channelling Islander! Aue!

    i was never going to let another loved one slip through my fingers like that. And, now, three years later, he's making up for losing 2-3 years of school, he's just started playing guitar, and most wonderful of all - he laughs and cracks jokes.

    Manawatu • Since Jan 2008 • 494 posts Report Reply

  • Mrs Skin,

    If his depression truly was precipitated by the feeling that the public hadn't bought his apology, those contacts seem consistent with how Veitch would behave in a genuine moment of distress.

    Remembering too, that his career depends largely on the public liking - or at the very least not disliking - him.

    the warmest room in the h… • Since Feb 2009 • 168 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    "Glenda Hughes must be regretting her decision to take him on, and I suspect she wouldn't be the only one."

    Jackie I recon she'll be regretting this all the way to the bank. This is what she does and she'll be in the wings for the next rich dick to fall.

    As for Veitch he's incredibly honest and he is depressed and not seeing the world clearly at all. Hence the "why me" & "I was driven to it".

    If there are two TV "stars" who pulled it off the crime & contrition stuff and then back to business it has to be our two narco celebs [Just thinking, please think a little harder before you type. Apart from it being unnecessary, one of the names you used here was plain wrong. Show some restraint -- RB]

    10 Pts if you name the All Black who killed someone, got convicted and then got Reality TV jobs.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite,

    Ah, congratulations!

    I find that my own Black Dog does not haunt hilltops and pine trees at sunset (lots of Kaka, though).

    Actually, that's a good marker - if someone stops doing the things that make them feel good, such as bush walks, then guide them back into taking the simple pleasures again.

    The good news is, I think, that people who have known serious depression, provided that they are well out of it, have learned themselves how to cope better than most 'normal' people when they later have a tough period in their lives - provided that too much doesn't pile up all at once.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Mrs Skin,

    Kerry - wow. Well done. Wow.

    It's hard enough parenting teenagers* without extra lumps thrown in. You're a bloody star.

    Something that is often repeated, and that I found to be true for myself, is that one of the hardest things about losing someone close is that people stop talking about them and it becomes like they never existed. You know your brother best, but I would urge you to consider letting him know that you miss your nephew and that you're there if he ever wants you to be. Perhaps write a letter. That way he doesn't have to reply if he's not comfortable talking about it.

    *Free to good home - one 17-year old. As is, where is.

    the warmest room in the h… • Since Feb 2009 • 168 posts Report Reply

  • Kerry Weston,

    It makes me very cross indeed when people play with suicide as a manipulative thing.

    That is a line that needs further discussion. What is an appropriate method of expressing a death wish, without the risk of vilification

    Well, to go all Freudian, Sigmund believed in a death drive didn't he? Like you're kind of inexorably attracted to it, because the fear of death is at once crippling and magnetic. Long, drawn-out self-destructive behaviour, like addiction, is another form of death wish.

    My implicit point in posting about my nephew was that he had one go at it - there were no attempts, nor any distraught communications or even depressive episode that we knew about. In a strange way, i found this comforting. It was calculated, planned, no rescue required.

    In the case of suicide ideation, and failed attempts, i guess one can't generalise about how to handle it. But I've observed others handle it by pretending it hasn't happened and not mentioning the "S" word and hurrying the victim off to counselling. That isn't how I'd deal with it. I don't mean I'd tell them off and say what a bad person they are for trying it, rather, relate in story-form, what the consequences are. And let them know, emphatically, that they matter to me. Doing something, as simple as taking them out for a walk, or coffee, staying in touch is really important, rather than endless talking. You can't live someone's life for them or make the life/death decision.

    Manawatu • Since Jan 2008 • 494 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I understand that Kracklite's diagnosis upthread seemed a step too far to some of you -- at the same time as I think it rang true in light of the recent very public events in the media, and stuff I know that hasn't been public.

    It's difficult to know where to moderate a discussion like this, but I've been inclined to let things stand on grounds that they are producing valid discussion of how and when people get to bad places.

    I am now at the stage of feeling sorry for Veitch, but also marvelling at the extent to which someone's personality can lead astray people who were supposed to be his calm, professional helpers.

    In the end, many people are suffering out of this.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Kerry - wow. Well done. Wow.

    It's hard enough parenting teenagers* without extra lumps thrown in. You're a bloody star.

    She is. I worked that out a while ago.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    "The only people who have access to the police caption of summary are myself, the officer in charge of the case, the Crown and Mr Veitch and his team," he told Radio New Zealand.

    My understanding is that the information leaked to the SST was from the summary before the court that the defense had access to (which is rather obvious, since the defense submitted the accusations in the first place).

    I think you're correct in saying that Hughes had the Sunday News and her pet seat-sniiffer Carolyne Meng-Yee at the HoS write matching stories trivialising the assault but this was almost certainly in response to media queries to Veitch about the details from the court summary. There is simply no way Team Veitch wanted those details made public when there was still a chance to avoid a legal hearing.

    And anecdotally - for what it's worth - I've asked one journalist how they could justify helping Veitch use their newspaper to relentlessly attack a women he'd assaulted and crippled, and the justification was that Dunne-Powell was using the media to attack Veitch and it would have been unethical not to allow him the opportunity to respond. Obviously there are a whole lot of problems with that statement, but Veitch's rather deranged approach to the whole affair does make a lot more sense when seen in that context.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 11 12 13 14 15 25 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.