Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: We can do better than this

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  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to ,

    Which, well, highly tasteless and offensive if it’s true, and therefore a bit off to be retailing without evidence, but I leave to the reader to judge how it compares to smearing victims of sexual assault etc.

    Oh, Jesus... Could you take a moment and really think about what you just did there?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    BTW, I gather David Fisher is working on a personal peace about dealing with Slater.

    Endnote 40 (p 146) for Chapter 4 says: "Slater gave various stories to the journalist David Fisher in that period [early 2012] including the Labour Party data story. They later fell out when Fisher wrote stories Slater did not like."

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George, in reply to Carol Stewart,

    It’s over to you, Pete, to identify a left-leaning blogger with even a tenth of the venality and vindictiveness of WhaleOil.

    Why?

    Why shouldn't I confront any level of venality and vindictiveness? We should be prepared to confront dirt at any level, surely?

    Russell's post is titled "We can do better than this." Quibbling about whether it is as extreme as Slater or not and doing nothing if it's not is a part of the problem. 'We' won't do any better than this if we excuse most of the dirtiness for whatever excuse we can think of.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Sorry, Russell, but that’s bullshit. They choose to and I thought grown-ups were expected to be honest about, and accountable for, their actions in this sad and sorry world. At least, that sounds an awful lot like what political journalists are happy to demand from everyone else on a daily basis.

    What are you saying? That journalists should never accept leaks and tips from politicians?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Collins is on her last last chance again. That jk is sooo assertive. Aint no bus, but hopefully she gets a rubbish truck to the Dump by tomorrow.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Carol Stewart,

    It’s over to you, Pete, to identify a left-leaning blogger with even a tenth of the venality and vindictiveness of WhaleOil.

    I feel kind of icky agreeing with Pete (sorry, Mr. George) but if our baseline is "not as bad as Whaleoil" that's a depressingly low bar you can clear without lifting your feet. And for the record, I've been smeared by the gutter trolls at both The Standard and Kiwiblog. They were equivalently fucking revolting. At least David Farrar has, to his credit, finally got out of utter denial mode but I'll believe it when I see it.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Oh, Jesus… Could you take a moment and really think about what you just did there?

    I think Keir may have been trying to make an artful point, but I deleted the comment. It was unnecessary and inappropriate.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    [Saw RB's post, deleted.]

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Pete George,

    not washing your hands before dinner is exactly the same as deploying a dirty nuclear bomb in a civilian area.

    see the flaw in that piece of moral 'reasoning'?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Steve Curtis,

    The Collins stuff is pretty weak and she has done the hard yards in the party and caucus so that Collins is pretty safe. The only time he would sack her would be if she moved against him

    If Collins doesn’t have a secret dirt file on her own leader, then she’s too big to fail for the caucus. The moment she walks the plank is the moment Team Whaleoil admits defeat. Then again, there’s no such thing as defeat in the Whaleoil dictionary, only ‘government-in-exile’ status.

    There have been calls for the central figure in the book, Whaleoil blog publisher Cameron Slater, to lose the Canon Media Award he won this year. I’m not particularly interested in campaigning for that – it’s a matter for the organisers and I don’t really care. But I do have some thoughts about what Rick Neville, chief executive of Canons organiser the Newspaper Publishers Association, said in a statement to Media Take:

    [REDACTED. That's just nasty speculation about someone who's not in a good state to be dealing with it right now. People, I’m going out to the supermarket and I’d be grateful if you could not post or link to stupid shit while I'm out. RB]

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5415 posts Report Reply

  • Carol Stewart, in reply to Pete George,

    Why shouldn’t I confront any level of venality and vindictiveness?

    Yup, fair point Pete.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 821 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Sooo, Collins isn't on her "last last" chance, she's "on her last chance after what happened last time."
    Not really seeing a whole lot of difference there.
    I really, really can't see how Key's continual defence of Collins can't be anything other than code for "I can't dump her because she's got dirt on me too and she'd take me down with her - and with all that 'pay them back double' business, you know she would, with bells and kittens...".

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • A S,

    At what point does the liability Collins poses to National staying in power exceed her value (if any)?

    How many senior Nat party people are currently doing those sums, do you think?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2007 • 269 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Graeme Edgeler has pointed out that strike offences are only counted once the warning is given. Key has squirmed out of decisive action on that technicality.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    It’s over to you, Pete, to identify a left-leaning blogger with even a tenth of the venality and vindictiveness of WhaleOil.

    I feel kind of icky agreeing with Pete (sorry, Mr. George) but if our baseline is “not as bad as Whaleoil” that’s a depressingly low bar you can clear without lifting your feet.

    Which is really just a morally elevated way of saying "everyone does it". It's simply not true. What has happened in and around Whaleoil these past few years is actually of a different nature.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Jonathan Ibell,

    It doesn't have to be this way. We can, all of us, do better than this.

    Not sure if Chris Trotter would agree that this is necessary - apparently it's to be expected and accepted, going by his column today:

    But the choice is not - with all due respect to Hager's ardent idealism - between decency and the pit.

    The choice is between accepting "dirty" politics, with all its "Criticks and Bug-writers", and rejecting altogether the formal and peaceful processes of democracy.

    The options are not fair means or foul: They are foul means or fouler.

    How's that for a depressing view?

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 10 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Meyers,

    Looks like a bit of change in approach by National today.

    John Key looked a lot more composed this morning on Firstline with a much more coherent sounding story (although still the same flimsy talking points as ever). Bill English is distancing himself (although I'm not sure he can really take John Key onto that high horse with him). Judith Collins is being labelled as "unwise".

    They seem to be making progress at weaselling out of this and claiming that everyone is doing this, especially all those "shock jock left-wingers".

    Wellington • Since May 2014 • 56 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    What are you saying? That journalists should never accept leaks and tips from politicians?

    That's wishful thinking on my part, but a good start would be for the Press Gallery to make it SOP to open visits from politicians with "This is all on the record and attributable." I expect that would lift the quality of such 'leaks and tips' enormously, as well as give us silly peasants a chance to decide how much weight we want to put on the person doing the speaking.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Pete George,

    No there’s not an equivalent, but there’s plenty of try hards. For instance:
    http://thestandard.org.nz/no-changes-for-kiwiblog/#comment-869553

    No matter how hard they try, Te Standard and Te Daily Blog seem to be confined to the <cough> ‘beltway’. So what does WhaleOil have that TS & TDB don’t? If it’s not about money, then it’s probably about knowing all the right people who do have money. And, I suspect, the old mantra recently popularised by Russell Brand: "the Right look for converts, the Left look for traitors".

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5415 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Sacha,

    No, he's into the more genteel, old-fashioned corruption such as double-dipping.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • A S,

    Wow. How can anyone take this seriously?

    John Key says no disciplinary action will be taken against the Justice Minister because the action pre-dated the final warning he gave Ms Collins over the Oravida scandal.

    Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Collins-unwise-to-pass-information-to-Slater/tabid/1607/articleID/357494/Default.aspx#ixzz3AntvYGuy

    How did that discussion go?

    "Judith, consider yourself lucky that your lies to me, and your apparent vendetta against people who can't fight back, pre-dated the warning I gave you for terrible judgement for an entirely different thing! If this had happened after your little Oravida episode came to light, I'd have had to sack you!"

    Wellington • Since Nov 2007 • 269 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Pete George,

    Because if some women could be raped and sexual predators are actively on the prowl at these "Princess Parties" with Farrar's knowledge or even facilitation, the tasteful, gentlemanly thing to do is to keep quiet to maintain calm at the bowling club. Charming, Pete.

    There's a risk of further criminal activity, a la Roast Busters, being committed, and mentioning that has you sputtering into your milo.

    It's time that you looked up "rape culture" and think about what facilitating it means.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Euan Mason, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Yes, well the smart move for Key now would be to sack Collins as a minister, deselect her as a candidate and declare a fatwa on party engagement with fringe wingnuts such as Slater.

    I suspect she's already been asked to resign though, and has refused.

    You are right of course, but it will be difficult for Key to take this path. He apparently has a delicate within-party struggle on his hands, and he favours the more extreme right, where Collins is Queen diva.

    Canterbury • Since Jul 2008 • 258 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    Pete George seems to spend a goodly portion of every working day commenting on various sites about how terrible/evil/awful/unfair The Standard is. I fear he may have found a new venue for his obsession.

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Thanks Russell, and I’ll happily grant that I don’t think Keir was being malignant either. Just somewhat careless, and it would sheer hypocrisy not to note I’ve been there myself. With bells and noddy hat on.

    Which is really just a morally elevated way of saying “everyone does it”.

    Oh, pish tosh. Everyone doesn’t do “it”, but yeah I’m sick of hearing “but X. is better than Whaleoil” because that’s saying little. Yeah, The Standard and Kiwiblog are better than Whaleoil because at least I didn’t have stalker bait personal information posted with the racist and homophobic abuse or the allegation that I “endorsed” a (blessedly ex-) American legislator who sent obscene texts to teenage male interns.

    That’s true as far as it goes, but I’m still in no great rush to send Messers Farrar and Prentice thank you cards any time soon. Nor do I feel any need to back off my long-held position that they consistently fail to take any real responsibility for the often foul comments on their own sites and I wouldn’t feel a whit of sympathy if they ended up on the thick end of a defamation settlement.

    You can still be pretty bloody bad and need to lift your game without being a total garbage monster.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

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